[Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
wolfbob
wolfbob at csnsys.com
Fri Nov 9 20:35:20 EST 2007
I understand and agree with what you said. The CDRW can
detect silence and determine that a gap should be there. If
it is fed directly from a turntable or FM or something that
may have some noise in the intertrack space then it swill
not do what is needed. The DAT however has no noise when
there is supposed to be no noise.
Your secret of success (in my opinion) in copying the LPs to
CD is in the use of the DAT as a buffer and a form of signal
processor although it can't really do much other than define
the quiet spaces and faithfully get the audio into digits to
put on the tape.
Now as I understand it, you use the analog output of the dat
to feed the CDRW. This requires the DAT to convert these
very good digits back to analog. Then the CDRW takes the
analog and converts it back to digits to write on the CD.
this d-to-a and a-to-d are unnecessary and can only corrupt
the sound ever so little.
Now the music industry has worried about common folk making
high quality CDs from copywrited material and they put a lot
of pressure on the manufacturers to reduce the quality in
going through the units. Sony has kinda got around this a
bit but, it may not be possible to get the DAT to output
digital stuff. I know it is hard to get the CDRW to output
non-original digital stuff.
Bob, WB6JPI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975
back" <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
> Hi Bob,
>
> The DAT, Digital Audio Tape, accepts an analog input from
> the turntable. It outputs as digital.
>
> The DAT deck I use has a loss factor so close to zero it
> is not worth discussing. It makes a copy of anything so
> exact as to be impossible to distinguish it from the
> original source. Michael Salmons, in the audio labs at the
> MO University where he is employed, has run my work on the
> audio equipment in the lab there and looked at it on
> various scopes. The DAT is vastly superior to any CDRW
> deck that I am aware of.
>
> Many professional studios did, some still do, use the high
> end DAT in their work. It uses the high speed, about
> 18,000 rpm, of the VCR technology.
>
> I will send you my personal notes on, and front panel/rear
> panel description of the controls and connections Bob.
> This will give someone as brilliant as you are a quick and
> fairly comprehensive overview of what it is and does.
>
> Thursday I asked a friend who is seventy-three, and no
> musical devotee and not musically talented, to listen to a
> song and tell me which version he liked the best. You know
> my system, so I will not mention the various components.
>
> The song was the 1964 version of "WalkDon't Run" by The
> Ventures. I had one cd done by a radio station engineering
> pro and my copy taken from a new 45 rpm single to DAT and
> later to CD.
>
> I put the digital version done using computers in one CD
> drive and my version from the original 45 rpm single in a
> second CD player. This way I could instantly switch
> between CD's.
>
> My friend did not know anything in advance, so as not to
> create any bias.
>
> I played the first thirty seconds of the song done by
> computers and then played the first thirty seconds done by
> my standalone equipment. Yes, I did use the James B.
> Lansing Century L-100's Robert! I had him sit on the same
> eight foot couch you sat on when you were here in June.
> The Century L-100's deliver the sound at ear level for an
> average height person and sitting in the center of the
> couch puts the listener exactly between the two ceiling
> mounted cabinets.
>
> He liked the second version best. This was the one I
> recorded. I asked him why? He said that some bass notes
> seemed a little muffled to him on the first version. He
> also thought that the highs were too harsh, almost tinny.
>
> However the equipment does it, my analog source, the 45
> rpm single in this case, converts it into digital on the
> DAT tape. So when I transfer it from the Master DAT tape
> to the CDRW deck, it is done as digital. The information
> code that the DAT, and the CDRW, insert between tracks is
> read by the CDRW deck without any difficulties. That is,
> when feeding my Master DAT tape recoreding to the CDRW
> deck for transfer to a CD, the CDRW deck knows, and
> recognizes, when to insert a five second totally silent
> segment between tracks, what track number the track is and
> so forth.
>
> This is excellent! As the alternative would mean that I
> had to manually cue every track the CDRW was to record.
> Which is both painstaking and often problem prone. The
> most slight noise can cause the CDRW deck to do strange
> things when it is recording! Built in Gremlins!
>
> I will try your suggestion Bob and see what difference it
> makes.
>
>
> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
> dfischer at usol.com
> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
> http://www.w9wze.net
> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
> hhrp.w9wze.net
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wolfbob" <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from
> 1975 back" <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>
>
>>I understand the CDRW, but am not familiar with the DAT.
>>It would be "better" to run the digital interconnect
>>either optical or coaxial. The DAT has to do a
>>Digital-to-Analog conversion and as I understand the Sony
>>DAT it is not near as good as the D-to-A in the CDRW and
>>the digital to digital would make a "better" CD recording.
>>I think you can monitor what the CDRW is getting to record
>>by listening (or feeding to the amp) the earphone output
>>on the CDRW or maybe the CDRW will analog output what it
>>is recording by the usual analog outputs. Better to let
>>the DAT output digital rather than have it convert to
>>analog only to have the CDRW convert it back to digital to
>>record. One less D-A and A-D process in the path.
>>
>> WBob
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
>> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from
>> 1975 back" <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>
>>
>>> Hi Bob,
>>>
>>> Yes, I do have analog selected as the "mode". The gold
>>> plated audio cables are just plugged into the standard
>>> RCA type input/output jacks. I can select the output
>>> mode on the front of the Sony ZA5 ES DAT deck as -
>>> analog or optical or coaxial. I can also select the
>>> input mode on the Sony CDRW deck as - analog or optical
>>> or coaxial.
>>>
>>> I do have the optical cable connected to the Sony ZA5 ES
>>> DAT output direct to the Sony CDRW deck. It does not
>>> pass through the Sony GX-80 ES amplifier, hence I can
>>> not monitor the audio.
>>>
>>>
>>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>> dfischer at usol.com
>>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>> http://www.w9wze.net
>>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "wolfbob" <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
>>> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from
>>> 1975 back" <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>>
>>>
>>>> Duane,
>>>> How do you have the DAT and CDRW connected? By analog
>>>> audio? There is probably a better way using either
>>>> optical or coaxial. The static may not go away, but it
>>>> will sure be different than what you get with the
>>>> analog path.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
>>>> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from
>>>> 1975 back" <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:01 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio
>>>> Cables
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> (LOL!) Funny Pete, but also very true. The on
>>>>> again/off again ones are enough to drive even I sane.
>>>>> Now that is a frightening thought in itself! But those
>>>>> that explode and blow their inerds all over the Ham
>>>>> Shack and very easy to find in the circuit!
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember one day when W8QWL was here and had to
>>>>> change the AA cells in his antenna analyzer. He
>>>>> removed each cell and tested it on his VOM. The third
>>>>> of four cells literally exploded! BANG! Scared the
>>>>> constipation right out of Denny, and startled me
>>>>> sitting about five feet away. Mercury flew out of that
>>>>> exploded cell and got on his clothes and skin.
>>>>> Fortunately Dennis was not injured.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never, nor had he, even heard of any AA cell
>>>>> simply exploding like that. Sounded like a cheap
>>>>> firecracker on the fourth of July, not one of those
>>>>> good ones like the 'Black Cat'!
>>>>>
>>>>> Pete, I wonder if there is some potential between the
>>>>> Sony ZA5 DAT deck and the Sony CDRW deck?
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I have learned is that any cassette tape one
>>>>> tries to record direct to a CDRW deck almost always
>>>>> fails. I spent 100 hours working with some historic
>>>>> cassette tapes from 1981-1983 and it was a nightmare!
>>>>> There is something about those analog cassette tapes,
>>>>> old or current, that the CDRW decks do not like.
>>>>> Hence, I am wondering if this periodic static might
>>>>> also be caused by something in the DAT tape. Who
>>>>> knows.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>>>> dfischer at usol.com
>>>>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>>>> http://www.w9wze.net
>>>>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>>>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Peter Markavage" <manualman at juno.com>
>>>>> To: <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio
>>>>> Cables
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anything that is mechanical, (motors, belts, drive
>>>>>> trains, etc.) have the
>>>>>> potential for generating static, and propagating it
>>>>>> either through the
>>>>>> air or through the circuitry. Likewise, even
>>>>>> components have the
>>>>>> potential for generating noise, which is perceived as
>>>>>> static and/or
>>>>>> creating distortion. A capacitor that is starting to
>>>>>> break down can
>>>>>> periodically generate "noise" into the system.
>>>>>> Current through a
>>>>>> resistor, depending upon the resistor's makeup and
>>>>>> age, can sometimes
>>>>>> generate noise over time. Likewise IC's and all
>>>>>> semiconductors also have
>>>>>> to the potential, due to current leakage, to develop
>>>>>> static and/or
>>>>>> distortion. Trying to find the culprit can be a real
>>>>>> test of sanity.
>>>>>> Probably why I like burned out components or
>>>>>> defective parts that blow
>>>>>> up. They're much easier to find and to diagnose the
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pete
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:23:25 -0500 "Duane Fischer,
>>>>>> W8DBF"
>>>>>> <dfischer at usol.com> writes:
>>>>>>> Hello Peter,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had already tried what you mentioned and it did
>>>>>>> not cause the
>>>>>>> static to
>>>>>>> occur.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Master recording on DAT does not have any static
>>>>>>> or any kind of
>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>> distortion on it. Hence, if the source is the DAT
>>>>>>> deck, it is not
>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>> from a defective recording.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have used a high end, supposedly 'top quality'
>>>>>>> optical cleaner on
>>>>>>> the CDRW
>>>>>>> deck to be sure that the Laser track is free from
>>>>>>> whatever. I also
>>>>>>> used a
>>>>>>> special DAT cleaning cassette to clean the high
>>>>>>> speed DAT heads.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I monitor the source, the DAT, as the CDRW deck
>>>>>>> records the
>>>>>>> signal from
>>>>>>> it, I never hear the static. Normally this static
>>>>>>> will be right at
>>>>>>> the start
>>>>>>> of a recording and last X seconds. However, it has
>>>>>>> happened three
>>>>>>> quarters
>>>>>>> of the way through a forty minute recording too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am wondering if it may be generated by friction
>>>>>>> between the DAT
>>>>>>> heads and
>>>>>>> the DAT tape as it is being played?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have also heard reports that some brands of blank
>>>>>>> CDR discs have
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> problems with sporadic static. I normally use Sony
>>>>>>> and Maxell
>>>>>>> "music" CDS,
>>>>>>> as I do not record music with computer software.
>>>>>>> Anyone else heard
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>> periodic reports of static issues with blank CDR
>>>>>>> discs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>>>>>> dfischer at usol.com
>>>>>>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>>>>>> http://www.w9wze.net
>>>>>>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>>>>>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Peter Markavage" <manualman at juno.com>
>>>>>>> To: <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:15 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio
>>>>>>> Cables
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > If you play something between these two units and
>>>>>>> > move the cables
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>> > and/or tap the connectors with a stick and hear
>>>>>>> > static or
>>>>>>> distortion
>>>>>>> > static (I'm not really sure what distortion static
>>>>>>> > is), then the
>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>> > is most likely in the cable or connectors. If this
>>>>>>> > activity
>>>>>>> doesn't bring
>>>>>>> > upon the static, most likely it's coming from one
>>>>>>> > of the units.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Pete, wa2cwa
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 16:58:10 -0500 "Duane Fischer,
>>>>>>> > W8DBF"
>>>>>>> > <dfischer at usol.com> writes:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Have any of you used the supposedly better
>>>>>>> >> quality gold plated
>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>> >> cables?
>>>>>>> >> The pairs I have are six feet long with male RCA
>>>>>>> >> plugs on each
>>>>>>> end.
>>>>>>> >> Very
>>>>>>> >> heavy shielded cable, I am not sure of the gauge.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> One thing I noticed when I first installed them
>>>>>>> >> was that they
>>>>>>> fit
>>>>>>> >> very
>>>>>>> >> tight! Removing them was not something one was
>>>>>>> >> supposed to do
>>>>>>> >> often!
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Since gold is not subject to corrosion I have
>>>>>>> >> left my four pairs
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> >> audio
>>>>>>> >> cables connected for the past eight years.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I am now getting some periodic static distortion
>>>>>>> >> between my Sony
>>>>>>> ZA5
>>>>>>> >> ES DAT
>>>>>>> >> deck and the Sony CDRW deck. I have the gold
>>>>>>> >> plated cables on
>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>>> >> input/outputs of the DAT deck running to the
>>>>>>> >> amplifier and from
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> amplifier to the input/output of the Sony CDRW
>>>>>>> >> deck. I have
>>>>>>> checked
>>>>>>> >> all
>>>>>>> >> cables to be sure they are not loose. I even
>>>>>>> >> partly unplugged
>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>> >> one and
>>>>>>> >> then re inserted it in case of a poor connection.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Nothing I have done thus far has eliminated the
>>>>>>> >> sometimes there
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> >> sometimes
>>>>>>> >> not static. Any suggestions or experiences with
>>>>>>> >> such cables to
>>>>>>> >> share?
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Thank you.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>>>>>> >> dfischer at usol.com
>>>>>>> >> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>>>>>> >> http://www.w9wze.net
>>>>>>> >> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>>>>>> >> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> >> Home:
>>>>>>> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>>> >> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>>> >> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> > Home:
>>>>>>> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>>> > List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>>> > ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>> > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database:
>>>>>>> > 269.15.18/1104 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > 11/1/2007 6:47 PM
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Home:
>>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Home:
>>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.18/1104 -
>>>>>> Release Date: 11/1/2007 6:47 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Home:
>>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Home:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus
>>>> Database: 269.15.18/1104 - Release Date: 11/1/2007 6:47
>>>> PM
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Home:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Home:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus
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>> PM
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>
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