[Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
Duane Fischer, W8DBF
dfischer at usol.com
Fri Nov 9 22:23:56 EST 2007
Hey Bob,
Fascinating. Live long and prosper Bro! Hold it! Did Spock have the "Bro" on
the end of that infamous Vulcan emotion free wish for species of all races?
Not to worry. Somewhere on this planet right now in time, Star Trek is
playing on a TV channel. All I need to do is find
it on my Sat RX!
Bob, I have been told that no matter what the "input select switch" is set
to, the output is always digital. There is no function knob on the Sony ZA5
ES DAT deck that allows the user to select the output mode. I just spent the
past thirty minutes reading through my detailed notes for the front panel
controls. Which I will send you a copy of by personal e-mail. It lists the
front panel controls, rear panel connections and buttons on the remote that
DBF can not use!
Unfortunately for me, the only way to manually select a desired track on a
recorded DAT cassette is by using the remote. On my currently in need of
service Sony DTC 59 ES DAT deck, (not studio grade as the ZA5 ES, but still
a super machine), there is a front panel door that drops down. Inside are
two rows of buttons: one through five and six through zero. I can press the
number of the desired track, press enter and in several seconds the desired
track is found, cued up and playing. I desperately need to get the broken
drive train parts replaced by Sony, but have not had the extra $235 to get
it done. I "must" get it done very soon, or Sony will not have parts to
repair it.
Having this function available to me is an absolute necessity Bob, as I am
certain you can comprehend why.
While reading the notes, I noticed that the input select switch has six
positions: center is "analog" or line. One click to the right is "mike", two
clicks to the right is "mike ATT". I assume that means attenuated? One click
left of "analog" is "optical", two clicks left is "coaxial".
There are also three recording mode speeds, commercial, consumer and
extended play. I have never used anything but the commercial speed.
I thought you were going to say that the secret of my recording success was
"my tremendous skill"! (LOL!)
Let me tell all list subscribers: I had the distinct honor and pleasure of
meeting Bob in person this past June. He is both brilliant and fascinating
to listen to. His experiences as an Aero Space Engineer have allowed him to
go places, see things and be involved with projects most of us just dream
about. He has an incredible audio setup at his home that defies words! How
he has managed to get all the electronics in one room and still find room
for a chair to sit on, well, I am supposed to be the Magician! An incredible
man who has forgotten more about audio then most of us ever knew.
Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
dfischer at usol.com
HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
http://www.w9wze.net
HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
hhrp.w9wze.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "wolfbob" <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back"
<vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>I understand and agree with what you said. The CDRW can detect silence and
>determine that a gap should be there. If it is fed directly from a
>turntable or FM or something that may have some noise in the intertrack
>space then it swill not do what is needed. The DAT however has no noise
>when there is supposed to be no noise.
>
> Your secret of success (in my opinion) in copying the LPs to CD is in the
> use of the DAT as a buffer and a form of signal processor although it
> can't really do much other than define the quiet spaces and faithfully get
> the audio into digits to put on the tape.
>
> Now as I understand it, you use the analog output of the dat to feed the
> CDRW. This requires the DAT to convert these very good digits back to
> analog. Then the CDRW takes the analog and converts it back to digits to
> write on the CD. this d-to-a and a-to-d are unnecessary and can only
> corrupt the sound ever so little.
>
> Now the music industry has worried about common folk making high quality
> CDs from copywrited material and they put a lot of pressure on the
> manufacturers to reduce the quality in going through the units. Sony has
> kinda got around this a bit but, it may not be possible to get the DAT to
> output digital stuff. I know it is hard to get the CDRW to output
> non-original digital stuff.
>
> Bob, WB6JPI
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back"
> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> The DAT, Digital Audio Tape, accepts an analog input from the turntable.
>> It outputs as digital.
>>
>> The DAT deck I use has a loss factor so close to zero it is not worth
>> discussing. It makes a copy of anything so exact as to be impossible to
>> distinguish it from the original source. Michael Salmons, in the audio
>> labs at the MO University where he is employed, has run my work on the
>> audio equipment in the lab there and looked at it on various scopes. The
>> DAT is vastly superior to any CDRW deck that I am aware of.
>>
>> Many professional studios did, some still do, use the high end DAT in
>> their work. It uses the high speed, about 18,000 rpm, of the VCR
>> technology.
>>
>> I will send you my personal notes on, and front panel/rear panel
>> description of the controls and connections Bob. This will give someone
>> as brilliant as you are a quick and fairly comprehensive overview of what
>> it is and does.
>>
>> Thursday I asked a friend who is seventy-three, and no musical devotee
>> and not musically talented, to listen to a song and tell me which version
>> he liked the best. You know my system, so I will not mention the various
>> components.
>>
>> The song was the 1964 version of "WalkDon't Run" by The Ventures. I had
>> one cd done by a radio station engineering pro and my copy taken from a
>> new 45 rpm single to DAT and later to CD.
>>
>> I put the digital version done using computers in one CD drive and my
>> version from the original 45 rpm single in a second CD player. This way I
>> could instantly switch between CD's.
>>
>> My friend did not know anything in advance, so as not to create any bias.
>>
>> I played the first thirty seconds of the song done by computers and then
>> played the first thirty seconds done by my standalone equipment. Yes, I
>> did use the James B. Lansing Century L-100's Robert! I had him sit on the
>> same eight foot couch you sat on when you were here in June. The Century
>> L-100's deliver the sound at ear level for an average height person and
>> sitting in the center of the couch puts the listener exactly between the
>> two ceiling mounted cabinets.
>>
>> He liked the second version best. This was the one I recorded. I asked
>> him why? He said that some bass notes seemed a little muffled to him on
>> the first version. He also thought that the highs were too harsh, almost
>> tinny.
>>
>> However the equipment does it, my analog source, the 45 rpm single in
>> this case, converts it into digital on the DAT tape. So when I transfer
>> it from the Master DAT tape to the CDRW deck, it is done as digital. The
>> information code that the DAT, and the CDRW, insert between tracks is
>> read by the CDRW deck without any difficulties. That is, when feeding my
>> Master DAT tape recoreding to the CDRW deck for transfer to a CD, the
>> CDRW deck knows, and recognizes, when to insert a five second totally
>> silent segment between tracks, what track number the track is and so
>> forth.
>>
>> This is excellent! As the alternative would mean that I had to manually
>> cue every track the CDRW was to record. Which is both painstaking and
>> often problem prone. The most slight noise can cause the CDRW deck to do
>> strange things when it is recording! Built in Gremlins!
>>
>> I will try your suggestion Bob and see what difference it makes.
>>
>>
>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>> dfischer at usol.com
>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>> http://www.w9wze.net
>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "wolfbob" <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
>> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back"
>> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>
>>
>>>I understand the CDRW, but am not familiar with the DAT. It would be
>>>"better" to run the digital interconnect either optical or coaxial. The
>>>DAT has to do a Digital-to-Analog conversion and as I understand the Sony
>>>DAT it is not near as good as the D-to-A in the CDRW and the digital to
>>>digital would make a "better" CD recording. I think you can monitor what
>>>the CDRW is getting to record by listening (or feeding to the amp) the
>>>earphone output on the CDRW or maybe the CDRW will analog output what it
>>>is recording by the usual analog outputs. Better to let the DAT output
>>>digital rather than have it convert to analog only to have the CDRW
>>>convert it back to digital to record. One less D-A and A-D process in the
>>>path.
>>>
>>> WBob
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
>>> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back"
>>> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I do have analog selected as the "mode". The gold plated audio
>>>> cables are just plugged into the standard RCA type input/output jacks.
>>>> I can select the output mode on the front of the Sony ZA5 ES DAT deck
>>>> as - analog or optical or coaxial. I can also select the input mode on
>>>> the Sony CDRW deck as - analog or optical or coaxial.
>>>>
>>>> I do have the optical cable connected to the Sony ZA5 ES DAT output
>>>> direct to the Sony CDRW deck. It does not pass through the Sony GX-80
>>>> ES amplifier, hence I can not monitor the audio.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>>> dfischer at usol.com
>>>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>>> http://www.w9wze.net
>>>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "wolfbob" <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
>>>> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back"
>>>> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:56 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Duane,
>>>>> How do you have the DAT and CDRW connected? By analog audio? There is
>>>>> probably a better way using either optical or coaxial. The static may
>>>>> not go away, but it will sure be different than what you get with the
>>>>> analog path.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
>>>>> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back"
>>>>> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:01 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> (LOL!) Funny Pete, but also very true. The on again/off again ones
>>>>>> are enough to drive even I sane. Now that is a frightening thought in
>>>>>> itself! But those that explode and blow their inerds all over the Ham
>>>>>> Shack and very easy to find in the circuit!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember one day when W8QWL was here and had to change the AA cells
>>>>>> in his antenna analyzer. He removed each cell and tested it on his
>>>>>> VOM. The third of four cells literally exploded! BANG! Scared the
>>>>>> constipation right out of Denny, and startled me sitting about five
>>>>>> feet away. Mercury flew out of that exploded cell and got on his
>>>>>> clothes and skin. Fortunately Dennis was not injured.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have never, nor had he, even heard of any AA cell simply exploding
>>>>>> like that. Sounded like a cheap firecracker on the fourth of July,
>>>>>> not one of those good ones like the 'Black Cat'!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pete, I wonder if there is some potential between the Sony ZA5 DAT
>>>>>> deck and the Sony CDRW deck?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing I have learned is that any cassette tape one tries to
>>>>>> record direct to a CDRW deck almost always fails. I spent 100 hours
>>>>>> working with some historic cassette tapes from 1981-1983 and it was a
>>>>>> nightmare! There is something about those analog cassette tapes, old
>>>>>> or current, that the CDRW decks do not like. Hence, I am wondering if
>>>>>> this periodic static might also be caused by something in the DAT
>>>>>> tape. Who knows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>>>>> dfischer at usol.com
>>>>>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>>>>> http://www.w9wze.net
>>>>>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>>>>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Peter Markavage" <manualman at juno.com>
>>>>>> To: <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:42 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anything that is mechanical, (motors, belts, drive trains, etc.)
>>>>>>> have the
>>>>>>> potential for generating static, and propagating it either through
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> air or through the circuitry. Likewise, even components have the
>>>>>>> potential for generating noise, which is perceived as static and/or
>>>>>>> creating distortion. A capacitor that is starting to break down can
>>>>>>> periodically generate "noise" into the system. Current through a
>>>>>>> resistor, depending upon the resistor's makeup and age, can
>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>> generate noise over time. Likewise IC's and all semiconductors also
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to the potential, due to current leakage, to develop static and/or
>>>>>>> distortion. Trying to find the culprit can be a real test of sanity.
>>>>>>> Probably why I like burned out components or defective parts that
>>>>>>> blow
>>>>>>> up. They're much easier to find and to diagnose the problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pete
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:23:25 -0500 "Duane Fischer, W8DBF"
>>>>>>> <dfischer at usol.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> Hello Peter,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had already tried what you mentioned and it did not cause the
>>>>>>>> static to
>>>>>>>> occur.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Master recording on DAT does not have any static or any kind of
>>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>>> distortion on it. Hence, if the source is the DAT deck, it is not
>>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>>> from a defective recording.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have used a high end, supposedly 'top quality' optical cleaner on
>>>>>>>> the CDRW
>>>>>>>> deck to be sure that the Laser track is free from whatever. I also
>>>>>>>> used a
>>>>>>>> special DAT cleaning cassette to clean the high speed DAT heads.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I monitor the source, the DAT, as the CDRW deck records the
>>>>>>>> signal from
>>>>>>>> it, I never hear the static. Normally this static will be right at
>>>>>>>> the start
>>>>>>>> of a recording and last X seconds. However, it has happened three
>>>>>>>> quarters
>>>>>>>> of the way through a forty minute recording too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am wondering if it may be generated by friction between the DAT
>>>>>>>> heads and
>>>>>>>> the DAT tape as it is being played?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have also heard reports that some brands of blank CDR discs have
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> problems with sporadic static. I normally use Sony and Maxell
>>>>>>>> "music" CDS,
>>>>>>>> as I do not record music with computer software. Anyone else heard
>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>> periodic reports of static issues with blank CDR discs?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>>>>>>> dfischer at usol.com
>>>>>>>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>>>>>>> http://www.w9wze.net
>>>>>>>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>>>>>>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Peter Markavage" <manualman at juno.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:15 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > If you play something between these two units and move the cables
>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>> > and/or tap the connectors with a stick and hear static or
>>>>>>>> distortion
>>>>>>>> > static (I'm not really sure what distortion static is), then the
>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>> > is most likely in the cable or connectors. If this activity
>>>>>>>> doesn't bring
>>>>>>>> > upon the static, most likely it's coming from one of the units.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Pete, wa2cwa
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 16:58:10 -0500 "Duane Fischer, W8DBF"
>>>>>>>> > <dfischer at usol.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Have any of you used the supposedly better quality gold plated
>>>>>>>> audio
>>>>>>>> >> cables?
>>>>>>>> >> The pairs I have are six feet long with male RCA plugs on each
>>>>>>>> end.
>>>>>>>> >> Very
>>>>>>>> >> heavy shielded cable, I am not sure of the gauge.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> One thing I noticed when I first installed them was that they
>>>>>>>> fit
>>>>>>>> >> very
>>>>>>>> >> tight! Removing them was not something one was supposed to do
>>>>>>>> >> often!
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Since gold is not subject to corrosion I have left my four pairs
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> >> audio
>>>>>>>> >> cables connected for the past eight years.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I am now getting some periodic static distortion between my Sony
>>>>>>>> ZA5
>>>>>>>> >> ES DAT
>>>>>>>> >> deck and the Sony CDRW deck. I have the gold plated cables on
>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>>>> >> input/outputs of the DAT deck running to the amplifier and from
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> amplifier to the input/output of the Sony CDRW deck. I have
>>>>>>>> checked
>>>>>>>> >> all
>>>>>>>> >> cables to be sure they are not loose. I even partly unplugged
>>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>>> >> one and
>>>>>>>> >> then re inserted it in case of a poor connection.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Nothing I have done thus far has eliminated the sometimes there
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> >> sometimes
>>>>>>>> >> not static. Any suggestions or experiences with such cables to
>>>>>>>> >> share?
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Thank you.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>>>>>>> >> dfischer at usol.com
>>>>>>>> >> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>>>>>>> >> http://www.w9wze.net
>>>>>>>> >> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>>>>>>> >> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>>>> >> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>>>> >> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>>>> > List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>>>> > ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>>> > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.18/1104 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > 11/1/2007 6:47 PM
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.18/1104 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 11/1/2007 6:47 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database:
>>>>> 269.15.18/1104 - Release Date: 11/1/2007 6:47 PM
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database:
>>> 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date: 11/8/2007 5:55 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database:
> 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date: 11/8/2007 5:55 PM
>
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