[Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables

Duane Fischer, W8DBF dfischer at usol.com
Fri Nov 9 18:52:22 EST 2007 

Hi Bob,

The DAT, Digital Audio Tape, accepts an analog input from the turntable. It 
outputs as digital.

The DAT deck I use has a loss factor so close to zero it is not worth 
discussing. It makes a copy of anything so exact as to be impossible to 
distinguish it from the original source. Michael Salmons, in the audio labs 
at the MO University where he is employed, has run my work on the audio 
equipment in the lab there and looked at it on various scopes. The DAT is 
vastly superior to any CDRW deck that I am aware of.

Many professional studios did, some still do, use the high end DAT in their 
work. It uses the high speed, about 18,000 rpm, of the VCR technology.

I will send you my personal notes on, and front panel/rear panel description 
of the controls and connections Bob. This will give someone as brilliant as 
you are a quick and fairly comprehensive overview of what it is and does.

Thursday I asked a friend who is seventy-three, and no musical devotee and 
not musically talented, to listen to a song and tell me which version he 
liked the best. You know my system, so I will not mention the various 
components.

The song was the 1964 version of "WalkDon't Run" by The Ventures. I had one 
cd done by a radio station engineering pro and my copy taken from a new 45 
rpm single to DAT and later to CD.

I put the digital version done using computers in one CD drive and my 
version from the original 45 rpm single in a second CD player. This way I 
could instantly switch between CD's.

My friend did not know anything in advance, so as not to create any bias.

I played the first thirty seconds of the song done by computers and then 
played the first thirty seconds done by my standalone equipment. Yes, I did 
use the James B. Lansing Century L-100's Robert! I had him sit on the same 
eight foot couch you sat on when you were here in June. The Century L-100's 
deliver the sound at ear level for an average height person and sitting in 
the center of the couch puts the listener exactly between the two ceiling 
mounted cabinets.

He liked the second version best. This was the one I recorded. I asked him 
why? He said that some bass notes seemed a little muffled to him on the 
first version. He also thought that the highs were too harsh, almost tinny.

However the equipment does it, my analog source, the 45 rpm single in this 
case, converts it into digital on the DAT tape. So when I transfer it from 
the Master DAT tape to the CDRW deck, it is done as digital. The information 
code that the DAT, and the CDRW, insert between tracks is read by the CDRW 
deck without any difficulties. That is, when feeding my Master DAT tape 
recoreding to the CDRW deck for transfer to a CD, the CDRW deck knows, and 
recognizes, when to insert a five second totally silent segment between 
tracks, what track number the track is and so forth.

This is excellent! As the alternative would mean that I had to manually cue 
every track the CDRW was to record. Which is both painstaking and often 
problem prone. The most slight noise can cause the CDRW deck to do strange 
things when it is recording! Built in Gremlins!

I will try your suggestion Bob and see what difference it makes.


Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
dfischer at usol.com
HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
http://www.w9wze.net
HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
hhrp.w9wze.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "wolfbob" <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back" 
<vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables


>I understand the CDRW, but am not familiar with the DAT. It would be 
>"better" to run the digital interconnect either optical or coaxial. The DAT 
>has to do a Digital-to-Analog conversion and as I understand the Sony DAT 
>it is not near as good as the D-to-A in the CDRW and the digital to digital 
>would make a "better" CD recording. I think you can monitor what the CDRW 
>is getting to record by listening (or feeding to the amp) the earphone 
>output on the CDRW or maybe the CDRW will analog output what it is 
>recording by the usual analog outputs. Better to let the DAT output digital 
>rather than have it convert to analog only to have the CDRW convert it back 
>to digital to record. One less D-A and A-D process in the path.
>
> WBob
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back" 
> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Yes, I do have analog selected as the "mode". The gold plated audio 
>> cables are just plugged into the standard RCA type input/output jacks. I 
>> can select the output mode on the front of the Sony ZA5 ES DAT deck as - 
>> analog or optical or coaxial. I can also select the input mode on the 
>> Sony CDRW deck as - analog or optical or coaxial.
>>
>> I do have the optical cable connected to the Sony ZA5 ES DAT output 
>> direct to the Sony CDRW deck. It does not pass through the Sony GX-80 ES 
>> amplifier, hence I can not monitor the audio.
>>
>>
>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>> dfischer at usol.com
>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>> http://www.w9wze.net
>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "wolfbob" <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
>> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back" 
>> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>
>>
>>> Duane,
>>> How do you have the DAT and CDRW connected? By analog audio? There is 
>>> probably a better way using either optical or coaxial. The static may 
>>> not go away, but it will sure be different than what you get with the 
>>> analog path.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
>>> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back" 
>>> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>>
>>>
>>>> (LOL!) Funny Pete, but also very true. The on again/off again ones are 
>>>> enough to drive even I sane. Now that is a frightening thought in 
>>>> itself! But those that explode and blow their inerds all over the Ham 
>>>> Shack and very easy to find in the circuit!
>>>>
>>>> I remember one day when W8QWL was here and had to change the AA cells 
>>>> in his antenna analyzer. He removed each cell and tested it on his VOM. 
>>>> The third of four cells literally exploded! BANG! Scared the 
>>>> constipation right out of Denny, and startled me sitting about five 
>>>> feet away. Mercury flew out of that exploded cell and got on his 
>>>> clothes and skin. Fortunately Dennis was not injured.
>>>>
>>>> I have never, nor had he, even heard of any AA cell simply exploding 
>>>> like that. Sounded like a cheap firecracker on the fourth of July, not 
>>>> one of those good ones like the 'Black Cat'!
>>>>
>>>> Pete, I wonder if there is some potential between the Sony ZA5 DAT deck 
>>>> and the Sony CDRW deck?
>>>>
>>>> One thing I have learned is that any cassette tape one tries to record 
>>>> direct to a CDRW deck almost always fails. I spent 100 hours working 
>>>> with some historic cassette tapes from 1981-1983 and it was a 
>>>> nightmare! There is something about those analog cassette tapes, old or 
>>>> current, that the CDRW decks do not like. Hence, I am wondering if this 
>>>> periodic static might also be caused by something in the DAT tape. Who 
>>>> knows.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>>> dfischer at usol.com
>>>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>>> http://www.w9wze.net
>>>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Peter Markavage" <manualman at juno.com>
>>>> To: <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Anything that is mechanical, (motors, belts, drive trains, etc.) have 
>>>>> the
>>>>> potential for generating static, and propagating it either through the
>>>>> air or through the circuitry. Likewise, even components have the
>>>>> potential for generating noise, which is perceived as static and/or
>>>>> creating distortion. A capacitor that is starting to break down can
>>>>> periodically generate "noise" into the system. Current through a
>>>>> resistor, depending upon the resistor's makeup and age, can sometimes
>>>>> generate noise over time. Likewise IC's and all semiconductors also 
>>>>> have
>>>>> to the potential, due to current leakage, to develop static and/or
>>>>> distortion. Trying to find the culprit can be a real test of sanity.
>>>>> Probably why I like burned out components or defective parts that blow
>>>>> up. They're much easier to find and to diagnose the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pete
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:23:25 -0500 "Duane Fischer, W8DBF"
>>>>> <dfischer at usol.com> writes:
>>>>>> Hello Peter,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had already tried what you mentioned and it did not cause the
>>>>>> static to
>>>>>> occur.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Master recording on DAT does not have any static or any kind of
>>>>>> audio
>>>>>> distortion on it. Hence, if the source is the DAT deck, it is not
>>>>>> coming
>>>>>> from a defective recording.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have used a high end, supposedly 'top quality' optical cleaner on
>>>>>> the CDRW
>>>>>> deck to be sure that the Laser track is free from whatever. I also
>>>>>> used a
>>>>>> special DAT cleaning cassette to clean the high speed DAT heads.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I monitor the source, the DAT, as the CDRW deck records the
>>>>>> signal from
>>>>>> it, I never hear the static. Normally this static will be right at
>>>>>> the start
>>>>>> of a recording and last X seconds. However, it has happened three
>>>>>> quarters
>>>>>> of the way through a forty minute recording too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am wondering if it may be generated by friction between the DAT
>>>>>> heads and
>>>>>> the DAT tape as it is being played?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have also heard reports that some brands of blank CDR discs have
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> problems with sporadic static. I normally use Sony and Maxell
>>>>>> "music" CDS,
>>>>>> as I do not record music with computer software. Anyone else heard
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> periodic reports of static issues with blank CDR discs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>>>>> dfischer at usol.com
>>>>>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>>>>> http://www.w9wze.net
>>>>>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>>>>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Peter Markavage" <manualman at juno.com>
>>>>>> To: <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:15 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Re Gold Plated Audio Cables
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > If you play something between these two units and move the cables
>>>>>> around
>>>>>> > and/or tap the connectors with a stick and hear static or
>>>>>> distortion
>>>>>> > static (I'm not really sure what distortion static is), then the
>>>>>> problem
>>>>>> > is most likely in the cable or connectors. If this activity
>>>>>> doesn't bring
>>>>>> > upon the static, most likely it's coming from one of the units.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Pete, wa2cwa
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 16:58:10 -0500 "Duane Fischer, W8DBF"
>>>>>> > <dfischer at usol.com> writes:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Have any of you used the supposedly better quality gold plated
>>>>>> audio
>>>>>> >> cables?
>>>>>> >> The pairs I have are six feet long with male RCA plugs on each
>>>>>> end.
>>>>>> >> Very
>>>>>> >> heavy shielded cable, I am not sure of the gauge.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> One thing I noticed when I first installed them was that they
>>>>>> fit
>>>>>> >> very
>>>>>> >> tight! Removing them was not something one was supposed to do
>>>>>> >> often!
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Since gold is not subject to corrosion I have left my four pairs
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> >> audio
>>>>>> >> cables connected for the past eight years.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I am now getting some periodic static distortion between my Sony
>>>>>> ZA5
>>>>>> >> ES DAT
>>>>>> >> deck and the Sony CDRW deck. I have the gold plated cables on
>>>>>> both
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> input/outputs of the DAT deck running to the amplifier and from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> amplifier to the input/output of the Sony CDRW deck. I have
>>>>>> checked
>>>>>> >> all
>>>>>> >> cables to be sure they are not loose. I even partly unplugged
>>>>>> each
>>>>>> >> one and
>>>>>> >> then re inserted it in case of a poor connection.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Nothing I have done thus far has eliminated the sometimes there
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> >> sometimes
>>>>>> >> not static. Any suggestions or experiences with such cables to
>>>>>> >> share?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Thank you.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>>>>>> >> dfischer at usol.com
>>>>>> >> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>>>>>> >> http://www.w9wze.net
>>>>>> >> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>>>>>> >> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>> >> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>> >> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>> > List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>> > ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > -- 
>>>>>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>> > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.18/1104 - Release Date:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > 11/1/2007 6:47 PM
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.18/1104 - Release Date: 
>>>>> 11/1/2007 6:47 PM
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 
>>> 269.15.18/1104 - Release Date: 11/1/2007 6:47 PM
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 
> 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date: 11/8/2007 5:55 PM
>
>

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