[Vintage-Audio] Re:
Robert J. McKee
[email protected]
Tue Jul 8 02:29:00 2003
Thank YOU for understanding, Rudy. With very high quality
equipment and speakers (speakers most important) there will
be an audible difference. Air, which the speakers move, is a
compressible medium. Rarification is limited to atmospheric
pressure and compression is theoretically unlimited.
You will notice that on both high-priced and high-quality
preamps and amplifiers (cost and quality are not tied together)
will have in their specifications that they are either inverting
or non-inverting. In setting up a quality system this information
can be valuable and time-saving.
> [Original Message]
> From: Rudy Rutenber <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 7/8/03 1:56:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Update On AR-4 Info
>
> Well, I have to stick my 2-cents in here...
>
> Regarding the polarity of the entire system. When you hear a bass drum,
it
> is positive in that the wave produced at the time of recording, is forward
> towards the microphone. If all the polarity in the wiring is correct from
> the mic to the final medium such as a CD, and, to your speakers, the
speaker
> will move outward and reproduce the bass drum as it was recorded. In some
> music, this is not important. In music that has a solid beat or groove,
it
> will sound mushy if the polarity is reversed. That's one good reason to
use
> the correct polarity for your speakers. (that is, a positive voltage on
the
> positive terminal produces an outward motion of the cone) I'm sure there
> are many others as I am sure to learn here soon.
> Rudy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 6:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Update On AR-4 Info
>
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > Interesting information, thank you.
> >
> > I do recall some speakers in the late sixties or early seventies that
> actually
> > plugged into the walloutlet for power. A novel approach, but I do not
> recall
> > them catching on once the curios were satisfied.
> >
> > You are quite correct Mark, only being out of phase makes a difference.
I
> simply
> > prefer to play it on the safe side with my stereo equipment.
> >
> > When I connected the AR-4 to the H.H. Scott LK-72B to test it, I tried
> > connecting the wires both ways. I could hear a difference one way and
> decided to
> > use that as the correct polarity. I have each positive wire in my
systems
> marked
> > on both ends for ease of identification, by the way. It turned out when
I
> did
> > take the grill cover off so I could feel the motion of the speaker cone,
> that I
> > had correctly identified the polarity. There is a discernable
difference.
> >
> > Are you suggesting there should be no difference if amp positive goes to
> speaker
> > negative and amp negative goes to speaker positive? If so, my ears say
> > otherwise.
> >
> > I believe the sharing of information, even when the opinions are
> contradictory,
> > is healthy. It always helps to look at a situation from a different
angle
> or
> > perspective. many times one sees something he/she never noticed before.
> >
> > Thank you for your insights Mark. I never realized that the speaker
output
> was
> > in AC current before.
> >
> > DBF
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------
> > From: AA6DX <[email protected]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Update On AR-4 Info
> > Date: Monday, July 07, 2003 7:36 PM
> >
> > Hello Duane. No, it is AC. Direct Current would do like your battery
> did,
> > causing the speaker diaphragm to move in ONE direction, which may make a
> > "pop", but not "audio". It is very convenient for the audiophile to use
> the
> > markings as you have noted, and that is correct. However, if you have a
> > stereo set up, just try this. REVERSE the wires to both speakers. You
> will
> > not hear a difference. REVERSE only one. Then, you will get the
KARAOKE
> > effect, where parts of the song are "nulled", due to the out-of-phase
> > presentation of the sound waves. You will sometimes hear this on an FM
> > stereo broadcast, when the engineer mis-wired the hook ups to the board
> and
> > created this "null", which creates a funny sound, and if the input is
> > actually MONO, will drop the audio output quite low.
> > I am not trying to disagree with anybody, just sharing with this great
> > group. I hope Robert McKee understands that! After all, I hate to
think
> > all my years of being in the stereo business, and then as a broadcast
> > engineer, do not go to waste! Cheers .. hope all had a happy fourth
of
> > july weekend, we did here, now ready for wife and I celebrating our
number
> > forty three anniversary, on the tenth. Mark
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <[email protected]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 4:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Update On AR-4 Info
> >
> >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > I would not call what he said exactly a 'flame', so let us not permit
a
> > > discussion to get out of hand gentleman. We can agree to disagree and
> > still not
> > > short circuits.
> > >
> > > In my mind, the positive speaker terminal on the amplifier should go
to
> > the
> > > positive terminal on the speaker.
> > >
> > > Isn't it DC to the speaker not AC?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Robert J. McKee <[email protected]>
> > > To: [email protected]; [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Update On AR-4 Info
> > > Date: Monday, July 07, 2003 5:04 PM
> > >
> > > Not important??? What do you think puts the punch in any sound
> > > from a bass drum to a triangle... sucking or blowing? Think about
> > > that for a bit before flaming.
> > > Bob McKee
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Original Message]
> > > > From: AA6DX <[email protected]>
> > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > Date: 7/7/03 4:57:02 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Update On AR-4 Info
> > > >
> > > > I now remember. Yes, this is the way the AR speakers were put
> together.
> > > > There were long, narrow staples holding the grill in place. That
is
> > > > factory, Duane.
> > > > As you know, but I itereate, for those reading who may not know, the
> > > > polarity is not necessarily important, as long as both speakers are
> the
> > > > same, and hooked up the same, to keep them in phase. We are dealing
> with
> > > > alternating current here, but they both need to putting the oooom in
> the
> > > > oooom pah pah at the same time in the same direction. In later
> years,
> > > when
> > > > replacing the components, most shops would put velcro on the grilles
> to
> > > > re-mount them. Cheers, y'all .. Mark
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <[email protected]>
> > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 3:21 PM
> > > > Subject: [Vintage-Audio] Update On AR-4 Info
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok, the old blind wonder dude got into the adventurous mood and
took
> a
> > > > serious
> > > > > squint at the AR-4's. The grill is held in place by six staples,
> three
> > > > down each
> > > > > side. The staple is long enough to go through the grill material,
> the
> > > wood
> > > > panel
> > > > > behind it and still hit the main wood of the cabinet. I can not
> state
> > > that
> > > > this
> > > > > is factory, but it certainly appears that way.
> > > > >
> > > > > When the cabinet is vertical, looking at it from the back, with
two
> > > > speaker
> > > > > terminals vertical top to bottom and tweeter pot control just to
> their
> > > > right,
> > > > > the top terminal is negative and the bottom one is positive.
> > > > >
> > > > > Question: the suspension around the edge of the woofer speaker
cone,
> > > what
> > > > is it?
> > > > > Is it supposed to be somewhat soft?
> > > > >
> > > > > FYI: I guessed the polarity right by ear. I tested it today with a
> > > battery
> > > > to be
> > > > > sure.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Duane W8DBF
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> > > > ** For Assistance: [email protected] **
> > >
> > >
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> > > List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
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> > > List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> > > ** For Assistance: [email protected] **
> > >
> >
> >
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>
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