[TheForge] anvil repair
jerry Frost
akfrosty at mtaonline.net
Wed Apr 23 15:04:01 EDT 2014
It's webtergeist! That explains so much, guess I need to give MTA a break.
Thanks Bruce, that's the basic process I used but don't remember the rod. As
I recall I used the steel on stone rod as it's impact resistant rather than
the metal on metal rod which is abrasion resistant and not so good on
impact. Use the wrong rod and you get cracking, especially inn the HAZ.
Oh good grief, I'm talking about the process again! It's the Webtergeist
they're putting thoughts in my head. Do we need to do a Netzorcism or what?
Jer
-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bruce
.
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 6:31 PM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] anvil repair
Yikes! It's a dreaded Zombie Thread (Threat?) !
Maybe resurrected anvils hybridized with dead goats leading to this?
Should anyone actually be interested in the topic of the subject line, here
are a couple relevant articles from the NJBA newsletter. The first, by Andy
and me, documents how we run an anvil-repair workshop. The second gives
Larry's take on how to repair anvils.
http://www.lightningforge.com/njba/njba164b.pdf
Bruce
NJ
On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 9:32 PM, jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net> wrote:
> Okay, I'm seriously out of the loop here, I didn't see the original
> post or am I in a time warp? It's been what two years since I repaired
that anvil.
>
> Jer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 4:15 PM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] anvil repair
>
> Respectfully:
> Welding on an anvil is an act best reserved for desperation in my opinion.
> Even with the best of rods and practice, the original " glass hard"
> surface,
> and fine grain structure of a good traditional anvil is sure to be
> compromised by the "HAZ" heat affect zone of weldments.
> The boundary between the original face and the weld, unavoidably,
> will be softer and have a coarser grain structure than the original face.
> An anvil should last for many generations, and i don't believe a
> welded anvil will.
> I did a very careful and technically correct set of repairs on my
> 250#er, and now, 25 or so years of heavy use later, there are
> hairline cracks beginning to show in a couple of places and the HAZs
> show dings that are not evident on the original face.
> If your anvil is ruined...Jerry's methods are the best way to go.
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Dann Johnson wrote:
>
> Jerry is frequently, exactly on target.
>
> I have welded up 4 old damaged anvils & after ground them down with
> a side grinder and then to the "near" with a flap disk.
> Strong, probably better than original.
>
> No regretts.. Each time I heated the mass of the old anvil with a larger
> weed burner propane burner, and after welding let it air cool.
>
> At 02:24 AM 7/22/2003, you wrote:
> > Jer, we've been doing it this way over 15 years and to my knowledge
> > there
> has not been a single failure. My 128# wrought anvil was the guinea
> pig and we had at least 4 different rods in it to see which worked
> best including 2 by Stoody, the Hobart, and one other I do not recall.
> The Hobart was BY FAR the best. That anvil sat in the shop at Allaire
> village for 2 or 3 years being abused by all the newbies and other
> loons whom I have witnessed do things to anvils and other equipment
> that demands shooting. The only divot came out of one of the Stoody
> beads. The rest are immaculate to this day and I have wailed on that
> little anvil a fair bit. My 106# PW is all Lincore 50 and after more
> than 10 years not the smallest hint of a chip anything along any of
> the still razor sharp edges.
> >
> > It is difficult to argue with success.
> >
> > On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Jerry Frost wrote:
> >>
> >> These are ALL HARDFACING rods and wire!! ARGHHHHH!!!
> >>
> >> They're abrasion resistant and really unsuitable unless you're
> >> planning on rubbing rocks on your anvil face.
> >>
> >> Use buildup rod or wire, it's intended to provdie an IMPACT
> >> resistant substrate so hardfacing won't check and spall in flexion.
> >> Buildup doesn't work harden, it's already impact resistant enough
> >> to take a dozer's worth of abuse without denting or work hardening.
> >> You can lay multiple passes without preheating, post heating or
worrying about it.
> >> It's designed to build up and replace LOST steel. It grinds well
> >> with common stone cups or right angle disks,NOT blue or green
> >> wheels, just plain old grinding disks and cups.
> >>
> >> GET OFF THE HARDFACING KICK! It's a myth and not only doesn't work
> >> it damages anvil faces with all the BADNESS of over heating HC
> >> steel faces!, It also causes many times the work to finish but I
> >> don't really CARE if you guys want to do ten times the work
> >> neccessary for a poor surface. I DO care about all the anvils
> >> hardfacing rod and wire are ruining!
> >>
> >> I know of which I speak, I ran hardfacing rods and wire for 20
> >> years and had to clean up messes made by guys who THOUGHT harder was
better.
> >> DOLTS! Yeah, I've run a few THOUSAND lbs. of Lincore 50 and it's
> >> superior for what it's intended HARD FACING, NOT anvil repair.
> >>
> >> Jer
> >>
> >> On 4/25/2013 5:10 PM, Andrew Vida wrote:
> >>> Grind all broken areas until nothing but bright metal shows.
> >>> Follow cracks all the way until they are no more. Preheat anvil to
> >>> 400* even if manufacturer of hardface material says it is not needed.
It is.
> >>>
> >>> Lay in your hardface material. Grind to your desired geometry. Done.
> >>>
> >>> The best electrodes we (NJBA) ever used was Hobart SmoothArc 600,
> >>> but that does not come in wire - stick only. For wire we used
> >>> Lincore 50, though I believe they have gone to Lincore 55 now and
> >>> it works very well. I prefer material that goes on at full hardness.
> >>> The work hardening materials are not to my liking. YMMV, of course.
> >>>
> >>> On 4/24/2013 7:14 AM, James wrote:
> >>>> I know this has been discussed before but I need a refresher
course...
> >>>>
> >>>> Bought an old (1856) William Foster anvil a few weeks ago. The
> >>>> top is pretty flat but the edges are beaten off almost all the
> >>>> way around and a couple places that appear to have rips or tears
> >>>> in the
> top.
> >>>>
> >>>> According to the Postman book, Anvils in America it has a wrought
> >>>> base and a steel top that was forge welded.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you were to attempt to rebuild the corners/edges of this
> >>>> anvil, what procedure would you follow? And what electrodes would you
use?
> >>>>
> >>>> My inclination is to clean it as much as possible, pre-heat to
> >>>> about400 degrees F, weld the bottom of any holes that cannot be
> >>>> cleaned without doing serious damage to the anvil with a 6010
> >>>> electrode (because it tolerates rust and junk and penetrates
> >>>> deeply). Then build up the surfaces with something like a 7018,
> >>>> grind down, etc. (I've read the
> >>>> 7018 works pretty well rebuilding an anvil.)
> >>>>
> >>>> I have an almost full 50# box of Lincoln Abrasoweld that I use
> >>>> occasionally but don't know if it's for impact, abrasion or both.
> >>>> I hesitate to use an extremely hard rod on an anvil. On the other
> >>>> hand, in the 40 years that I've been welding I've used Stoody,
> >>>> Hi-Alloy, Hobart, specialty rods etc. with generally good success.
> >>>> Those rods used to be pretty common here (100 mi. NE of Dallas,
> >>>> TX) but now you just about can't get any special stick rods (Ni
> >>>> for cast iron being and Hi-Alloy
> >>>> 500 the only exceptions).
> >>>>
> >>>> I presume this is due to the extreme popularity of MIG machines
> >>>> and the guys using portable rigs only use 6010/11 and 7018 for
> >>>> most work. All that to say, specialty rods are hard to find here
> >>>> and the boys in the welding shops aren't very helpful.
> >>>>
> >>>> Would you go to the trouble to find a different rod selection
> >>>> than what I have mentioned and what procedure would you recommend
> >>>> if different from the above? Since Postman says the body of this
> >>>> anvil is wrought - and I've never stick welded wrought iron -
> >>>> will I have any difficulties if I get down into the wrought part?
> >>>>
> >>>> And one more question, just how well would a MIG w/ standard
> >>>> off-the-shelf MIG wire and 92/8 or 75/25 shielding gas work to
> >>>> repair an anvil?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> James
> >>
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