[TheForge] anvil repair

Tue Apr 22 22:30:56 EDT 2014

Yikes!  It's a dreaded Zombie Thread (Threat?) !

Maybe resurrected anvils hybridized with dead goats leading to this?

Should anyone actually be interested in the topic of the subject line, here
are a couple relevant articles from the NJBA newsletter.  The first, by
Andy and me, documents how we run an anvil-repair workshop.  The second
gives Larry's take on how to repair anvils.

http://www.lightningforge.com/njba/njba164b.pdf

Bruce
NJ

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 9:32 PM, jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net> wrote:

> Okay, I'm seriously out of the loop here, I didn't see the original post or
> am I in a time warp? It's been what two years since I repaired that anvil.
>
> Jer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> Peter
> Fels & Phoebe Palmer
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 4:15 PM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] anvil repair
>
> Respectfully:
> Welding on an anvil is an act best reserved for desperation in my opinion.
> Even with the best of rods and practice, the original " glass hard"
> surface,
> and fine grain structure of a good traditional anvil is sure to be
> compromised by the "HAZ" heat affect zone of weldments.
> The boundary between the original face and the weld, unavoidably,  will be
> softer and have a coarser grain structure than the original face.
> An anvil should last for many generations, and i don't believe a welded
> anvil will.
> I did a very careful and technically correct set of repairs on my 250#er,
> and now, 25 or so years  of heavy use later, there are hairline cracks
> beginning to show in a couple of places and the HAZs show dings that are
> not
> evident on the original face.
> If your anvil is ruined...Jerry's methods are the best way to go.
>
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Dann Johnson wrote:
>
> Jerry is frequently, exactly on target.
>
> I have welded up 4 old damaged anvils  & after ground  them down with a
> side
> grinder and then to the "near" with a flap disk.
> Strong, probably better than original.
>
> No regretts.. Each time   I heated the mass of the old anvil with a larger
> weed burner propane burner, and after welding let it air cool.
>
> At 02:24 AM 7/22/2003, you wrote:
> > Jer, we've been doing it this way over 15 years and to my knowledge there
> has not been a single failure.  My 128# wrought anvil was the guinea pig
> and
> we had at least 4 different rods in it to see which worked best including 2
> by Stoody, the Hobart, and one other I do not recall.  The Hobart was BY
> FAR
> the best.  That anvil sat in the shop at Allaire village for 2 or 3 years
> being abused by all the newbies and other loons whom I have witnessed do
> things to anvils and other equipment that demands shooting.  The only divot
> came out of one of the Stoody beads.  The rest are immaculate to this day
> and I have wailed on that little anvil a fair bit.  My 106# PW is all
> Lincore 50 and after more than 10 years not the smallest hint of a chip
> anything along any of the still razor sharp edges.
> >
> > It is difficult to argue with success.
> >
> > On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Jerry Frost wrote:
> >>
> >> These are ALL HARDFACING rods and wire!! ARGHHHHH!!!
> >>
> >> They're abrasion resistant and really unsuitable unless you're
> >> planning on rubbing rocks on your anvil face.
> >>
> >> Use buildup rod or wire, it's intended to provdie an IMPACT resistant
> >> substrate so hardfacing won't check and spall in flexion. Buildup
> >> doesn't work harden, it's already impact resistant enough to take a
> >> dozer's worth of abuse without denting or work hardening. You can lay
> >> multiple passes without preheating, post heating or worrying about it.
> >> It's designed to build up and replace LOST steel. It grinds well with
> >> common stone cups or right angle disks,NOT blue or green wheels, just
> >> plain old grinding disks and cups.
> >>
> >> GET OFF THE HARDFACING KICK! It's a myth and not only doesn't work it
> >> damages anvil faces with all the BADNESS of over heating HC steel
> >> faces!, It also causes many times the work to finish but I don't
> >> really CARE if you guys want to do ten times the work neccessary for
> >> a poor surface. I DO care about all the anvils hardfacing rod and
> >> wire are ruining!
> >>
> >> I know of which I speak, I ran hardfacing rods and wire for 20 years
> >> and had to clean up messes made by guys who THOUGHT harder was better.
> >> DOLTS! Yeah, I've run a few THOUSAND lbs. of Lincore 50 and it's
> >> superior for what it's intended HARD FACING, NOT anvil repair.
> >>
> >> Jer
> >>
> >> On 4/25/2013 5:10 PM, Andrew Vida wrote:
> >>> Grind all broken areas until nothing but bright metal shows. Follow
> >>> cracks all the way until they are no more. Preheat anvil to 400*
> >>> even if manufacturer of hardface material says it is not needed. It is.
> >>>
> >>> Lay in your hardface material. Grind to your desired geometry. Done.
> >>>
> >>> The best electrodes we (NJBA) ever used was Hobart SmoothArc 600,
> >>> but that does not come in wire - stick only. For wire we used
> >>> Lincore 50, though I believe they have gone to Lincore 55 now and it
> >>> works very well. I prefer material that goes on at full hardness.
> >>> The work hardening materials are not to my liking. YMMV, of course.
> >>>
> >>> On 4/24/2013 7:14 AM, James wrote:
> >>>> I know this has been discussed before but I need a refresher course...
> >>>>
> >>>> Bought an old (1856) William Foster anvil a few weeks ago. The top
> >>>> is pretty flat but the edges are beaten off almost all the way
> >>>> around and a couple places that appear to have rips or tears in the
> top.
> >>>>
> >>>> According to the Postman book, Anvils in America it has a wrought
> >>>> base and a steel top that was forge welded.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you were to attempt to rebuild the corners/edges of this anvil,
> >>>> what procedure would you follow? And what electrodes would you use?
> >>>>
> >>>> My inclination is to clean it as much as possible, pre-heat to
> >>>> about400 degrees F, weld the bottom of any holes that cannot be
> >>>> cleaned without doing serious damage to the anvil with a 6010
> >>>> electrode (because it tolerates rust and junk and penetrates
> >>>> deeply). Then build up the surfaces with something like a 7018,
> >>>> grind down, etc. (I've read the
> >>>> 7018 works pretty well rebuilding an anvil.)
> >>>>
> >>>> I have an almost full 50# box of Lincoln Abrasoweld that I use
> >>>> occasionally but don't know if it's for impact, abrasion or both. I
> >>>> hesitate to use an extremely hard rod on an anvil. On the other
> >>>> hand, in the 40 years that I've been welding I've used Stoody,
> >>>> Hi-Alloy, Hobart, specialty rods etc. with generally good success.
> >>>> Those rods used to be pretty common here (100 mi. NE of Dallas, TX)
> >>>> but now you just about can't get any special stick rods (Ni for
> >>>> cast iron being and Hi-Alloy
> >>>> 500 the only exceptions).
> >>>>
> >>>> I presume this is due to the extreme popularity of MIG machines and
> >>>> the guys using portable rigs only use 6010/11 and 7018 for most
> >>>> work. All that to say, specialty rods are hard to find here and the
> >>>> boys in the welding shops aren't very helpful.
> >>>>
> >>>> Would you go to the trouble to find a different rod selection than
> >>>> what I have mentioned and what procedure would you recommend if
> >>>> different from the above? Since Postman says the body of this anvil
> >>>> is wrought - and I've never stick welded wrought iron - will I have
> >>>> any difficulties if I get down into the wrought part?
> >>>>
> >>>> And one more question, just how well would a MIG w/ standard
> >>>> off-the-shelf MIG wire and 92/8 or 75/25 shielding gas work to
> >>>> repair an anvil?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> James
> >>
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