[TheForge] historcial blacksmith status in the community

[Bruce .]

Not so much that.  More that reading is not enough for some (many?)
people.  I read and understand.  OTOH, I have a bit of difficulty
listening and remembering what I heard -- I do better when I take
notes.  I suspect a lot of people (most?) are just the reverse.

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net> wrote:
> Don't educate them more than they need to do their jobs eh? How veddy veddy
> British of you Bruce.
>
> Jer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce ." <freemab222 at gmail.com>
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 6:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] historcial blacksmith status in the community
>
>
>> Remember too that in the southern states, slaves were sometimes
>> trained as blacksmiths.  There were LAWS against teaching a black
>> slave to read!  Clearly the job can be done without reading.
>>
>> Sometimes I wonder whether reading is really an advantage to all men.
>> People who CAN read, don't always read and understand.  I've
>> encountered scientific technicians like this.  Some people would be
>> better off being read to.  But had they never learned to read, maybe
>> they'd have learned to listen.  Having learned to read, they don't
>> listen either!
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/12/2012 12:06 AM, terry l. ridder wrote:
>>>> hello;
>>>>
>>>> given what i have been reading and from the numerous examples of highly
>>>> detailed iron work throughout the UK and Europe, what was the status of
>>>> the blacksmith in the community.
>>>
>>> Generally speaking, he would have been viewed as just another craftsman
>>> - a respectable but low trade, just as was the case with painters, wood
>>> carvers, carpenters, gold smiths, glass makers, and so on.
>>>
>>> If you were not aristocracy, you were chud.
>>>>
>>>> we may infer that the blacksmith had to be able to read and write which
>>>> set him apart from most of the local community. the serfs and feudal
>>>> tenants on the nobels lands were probably not able to read nor write.
>>>
>>> I seriously doubt that, save perhaps in the freakishly exceptional case.
>>>>
>>>> we may also info that the blacksmith had to be knowledgable in math and
>>>> geometry. we may be pushing it a bit to infer that the blacksmith had a
>>>> working knowledge of trigonometry.
>>>
>>> Methinks your opinion is based on a wildly incorrect set of assumptions.
>>>>
>>>> given this knowledge what was the social status of the blacksmith in the
>>>> local community? the nobels may have had a love/hate relationship with
>>>> the blacksmith. they needed the blacksmith to make new weapons, armor
>>>> and to maintain the old weapons and armor. they did not like the fact
>>>> that he could read and write. that would appear to be a threat to the
>>>> nobels.
>>>
>>> He did not need to read and write to do what he did.  I have never seen
>>> any indication that the smith was anything but the same brand of
>>> illiterate brute as the rest of the serfs.  Once again, he was not
>>> aristocratic and therefore not of the body.  In the bad old days the
>>> vulgar were not encouraged to become literate and were often forbidden
>>> from doing so.  The Roman Catholic church had (has since Vatican II???)
>>> the Vulgate - the common book - with the prayers, rites, and so forth
>>> for the commoners.  Most of meat of the faith was left out and even this
>>> tome was forbidden to commoners - for centuries the church forbade the
>>> teaching of reading/writing to anyone outside the clergy.  They were not
>>> even thrilled about kings becoming literate because literate people at
>>> those times were more difficult to control.
>>>>
>>>> given the blacksmith's relationship with the nobels, the peasants
>>>> probably did not like the blacksmith very much.
>>>
>>> Upon what do you base this assertion?  Once again I have yet to see any
>>> evidence of this.  If you were a good smith and came to the attention of
>>> the local lord, you may have been made an offer you could not refuse to
>>> become the armorer or what have you.
>>>
>>> I also suspect that you may be considering medieval relationships with
>>> twenty first century eyes.  Whether we like it, we see things through
>>> the lens of the contemporary culture and today that culture is very
>>> different in terms of interpersonal relations.  There is actually a lot
>>> less respect for the individual today in certain ways than there was
>>> then between individuals, but that is a discussion for another day.
>>>
>>> Consider also this: life was a whole hell of a lot different then than
>>> now, materially speaking.  Most labor was done by hand - there was
>>> nothing even remotely resembling modern manufacturing.  There was no
>>> such thing as standardization of parts.  Everything was custom made, but
>>> more importantly, the blacksmith was the source for things without which
>>> one's survival could possibly come into question.  An implement as
>>> simple as a shovel could mean the difference between living and dying.
>>> Ever try digging a hole with just your fingers?  I have, just to
>>> understand the significance of the lowly shovel.  They are miraculous
>>> things, as are hammers and every other tool that most people treat with
>>> a certain disregard.
>>>
>>> Given this, I would say that in general the blacksmith probably enjoyed
>>> respect on par with that of any other person, and perhaps even more than
>>> some.  He was the SOLE source of life-sustaining tools and IMO was
>>> respected for their abilities.  Hating skillful and successful men is a
>>> phenomenon of late 20th century origins in progressivism.  Such people
>>> used to be admired.
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bruce
>> NJ
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>
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-- 
Bruce
NJ