[TheForge] historcial blacksmith status in the community

[Jerry Frost]

Don't educate them more than they need to do their jobs eh? How veddy veddy 
British of you Bruce.

Jer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce ." <freemab222 at gmail.com>
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] historcial blacksmith status in the community


> Remember too that in the southern states, slaves were sometimes
> trained as blacksmiths.  There were LAWS against teaching a black
> slave to read!  Clearly the job can be done without reading.
>
> Sometimes I wonder whether reading is really an advantage to all men.
> People who CAN read, don't always read and understand.  I've
> encountered scientific technicians like this.  Some people would be
> better off being read to.  But had they never learned to read, maybe
> they'd have learned to listen.  Having learned to read, they don't
> listen either!
>
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 10/12/2012 12:06 AM, terry l. ridder wrote:
>>> hello;
>>>
>>> given what i have been reading and from the numerous examples of highly
>>> detailed iron work throughout the UK and Europe, what was the status of
>>> the blacksmith in the community.
>>
>> Generally speaking, he would have been viewed as just another craftsman
>> - a respectable but low trade, just as was the case with painters, wood
>> carvers, carpenters, gold smiths, glass makers, and so on.
>>
>> If you were not aristocracy, you were chud.
>>>
>>> we may infer that the blacksmith had to be able to read and write which
>>> set him apart from most of the local community. the serfs and feudal
>>> tenants on the nobels lands were probably not able to read nor write.
>>
>> I seriously doubt that, save perhaps in the freakishly exceptional case.
>>>
>>> we may also info that the blacksmith had to be knowledgable in math and
>>> geometry. we may be pushing it a bit to infer that the blacksmith had a
>>> working knowledge of trigonometry.
>>
>> Methinks your opinion is based on a wildly incorrect set of assumptions.
>>>
>>> given this knowledge what was the social status of the blacksmith in the
>>> local community? the nobels may have had a love/hate relationship with
>>> the blacksmith. they needed the blacksmith to make new weapons, armor
>>> and to maintain the old weapons and armor. they did not like the fact
>>> that he could read and write. that would appear to be a threat to the
>>> nobels.
>>
>> He did not need to read and write to do what he did.  I have never seen
>> any indication that the smith was anything but the same brand of
>> illiterate brute as the rest of the serfs.  Once again, he was not
>> aristocratic and therefore not of the body.  In the bad old days the
>> vulgar were not encouraged to become literate and were often forbidden
>> from doing so.  The Roman Catholic church had (has since Vatican II???)
>> the Vulgate - the common book - with the prayers, rites, and so forth
>> for the commoners.  Most of meat of the faith was left out and even this
>> tome was forbidden to commoners - for centuries the church forbade the
>> teaching of reading/writing to anyone outside the clergy.  They were not
>> even thrilled about kings becoming literate because literate people at
>> those times were more difficult to control.
>>>
>>> given the blacksmith's relationship with the nobels, the peasants
>>> probably did not like the blacksmith very much.
>>
>> Upon what do you base this assertion?  Once again I have yet to see any
>> evidence of this.  If you were a good smith and came to the attention of
>> the local lord, you may have been made an offer you could not refuse to
>> become the armorer or what have you.
>>
>> I also suspect that you may be considering medieval relationships with
>> twenty first century eyes.  Whether we like it, we see things through
>> the lens of the contemporary culture and today that culture is very
>> different in terms of interpersonal relations.  There is actually a lot
>> less respect for the individual today in certain ways than there was
>> then between individuals, but that is a discussion for another day.
>>
>> Consider also this: life was a whole hell of a lot different then than
>> now, materially speaking.  Most labor was done by hand - there was
>> nothing even remotely resembling modern manufacturing.  There was no
>> such thing as standardization of parts.  Everything was custom made, but
>> more importantly, the blacksmith was the source for things without which
>> one's survival could possibly come into question.  An implement as
>> simple as a shovel could mean the difference between living and dying.
>> Ever try digging a hole with just your fingers?  I have, just to
>> understand the significance of the lowly shovel.  They are miraculous
>> things, as are hammers and every other tool that most people treat with
>> a certain disregard.
>>
>> Given this, I would say that in general the blacksmith probably enjoyed
>> respect on par with that of any other person, and perhaps even more than
>> some.  He was the SOLE source of life-sustaining tools and IMO was
>> respected for their abilities.  Hating skillful and successful men is a
>> phenomenon of late 20th century origins in progressivism.  Such people
>> used to be admired.
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>
>
> -- 
> Bruce
> NJ
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