[TheForge] historcial blacksmith status in the community

[Bruce .]

Remember too that in the southern states, slaves were sometimes
trained as blacksmiths.  There were LAWS against teaching a black
slave to read!  Clearly the job can be done without reading.

Sometimes I wonder whether reading is really an advantage to all men.
People who CAN read, don't always read and understand.  I've
encountered scientific technicians like this.  Some people would be
better off being read to.  But had they never learned to read, maybe
they'd have learned to listen.  Having learned to read, they don't
listen either!

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net> wrote:
>
>
> On 10/12/2012 12:06 AM, terry l. ridder wrote:
>> hello;
>>
>> given what i have been reading and from the numerous examples of highly
>> detailed iron work throughout the UK and Europe, what was the status of
>> the blacksmith in the community.
>
> Generally speaking, he would have been viewed as just another craftsman
> - a respectable but low trade, just as was the case with painters, wood
> carvers, carpenters, gold smiths, glass makers, and so on.
>
> If you were not aristocracy, you were chud.
>>
>> we may infer that the blacksmith had to be able to read and write which
>> set him apart from most of the local community. the serfs and feudal
>> tenants on the nobels lands were probably not able to read nor write.
>
> I seriously doubt that, save perhaps in the freakishly exceptional case.
>>
>> we may also info that the blacksmith had to be knowledgable in math and
>> geometry. we may be pushing it a bit to infer that the blacksmith had a
>> working knowledge of trigonometry.
>
> Methinks your opinion is based on a wildly incorrect set of assumptions.
>>
>> given this knowledge what was the social status of the blacksmith in the
>> local community? the nobels may have had a love/hate relationship with
>> the blacksmith. they needed the blacksmith to make new weapons, armor
>> and to maintain the old weapons and armor. they did not like the fact
>> that he could read and write. that would appear to be a threat to the
>> nobels.
>
> He did not need to read and write to do what he did.  I have never seen
> any indication that the smith was anything but the same brand of
> illiterate brute as the rest of the serfs.  Once again, he was not
> aristocratic and therefore not of the body.  In the bad old days the
> vulgar were not encouraged to become literate and were often forbidden
> from doing so.  The Roman Catholic church had (has since Vatican II???)
> the Vulgate - the common book - with the prayers, rites, and so forth
> for the commoners.  Most of meat of the faith was left out and even this
> tome was forbidden to commoners - for centuries the church forbade the
> teaching of reading/writing to anyone outside the clergy.  They were not
> even thrilled about kings becoming literate because literate people at
> those times were more difficult to control.
>>
>> given the blacksmith's relationship with the nobels, the peasants
>> probably did not like the blacksmith very much.
>
> Upon what do you base this assertion?  Once again I have yet to see any
> evidence of this.  If you were a good smith and came to the attention of
> the local lord, you may have been made an offer you could not refuse to
> become the armorer or what have you.
>
> I also suspect that you may be considering medieval relationships with
> twenty first century eyes.  Whether we like it, we see things through
> the lens of the contemporary culture and today that culture is very
> different in terms of interpersonal relations.  There is actually a lot
> less respect for the individual today in certain ways than there was
> then between individuals, but that is a discussion for another day.
>
> Consider also this: life was a whole hell of a lot different then than
> now, materially speaking.  Most labor was done by hand - there was
> nothing even remotely resembling modern manufacturing.  There was no
> such thing as standardization of parts.  Everything was custom made, but
> more importantly, the blacksmith was the source for things without which
> one's survival could possibly come into question.  An implement as
> simple as a shovel could mean the difference between living and dying.
> Ever try digging a hole with just your fingers?  I have, just to
> understand the significance of the lowly shovel.  They are miraculous
> things, as are hammers and every other tool that most people treat with
> a certain disregard.
>
> Given this, I would say that in general the blacksmith probably enjoyed
> respect on par with that of any other person, and perhaps even more than
> some.  He was the SOLE source of life-sustaining tools and IMO was
> respected for their abilities.  Hating skillful and successful men is a
> phenomenon of late 20th century origins in progressivism.  Such people
> used to be admired.
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-- 
Bruce
NJ