[TheForge] The most effort for the least results

Mon Dec 24 12:16:28 EST 2012

Walt, you have NO idea of what you are speaking.  NONE.

One does not just take an AR and make it into a full auto weapon.  There 
are all manner of considerations, not the least of which is a factor 
called "timing".  An untimed weapon will NOT operate.  Period.

To convert an AR15 into an M16 you need the right fire-control group, 
hammer, and bolt carrier.  Then the weapon must be timed such that the 
hammer strikes the firing pin properly or the weapon will simply fail to 
function.

Your speak of rubber bands is nonsense in terms of producing a properly 
reliable automatic weapon.  There are about a million legally owned 
fully automatic weapons in the USA.  Of all those, ONE has ever been 
used to commit a crime and that was by a cop back in the 60s as I 
recall.  ONE.

This brand of hysterical posturing is not only unproductive, it is 
potentially dangerous because there are a goodly number of Americans who 
are not going to give up their weapons no matter what an arbitrarily 
constituted mob of "legislators" says.

Have your opinions if you will, but be aware that ignorance is not a 
good position from which to make public proclamations... though I must 
admit that it appears to work well enough for those in elected public 
office. :(

On 12/24/2012 10:40 AM, wmullett at bright.net wrote:
> What is a fully automatic?
>
> If you look at the post I made last week, a rubber band turns the Bushmaster into an "automatic" and another post shows the gun was made with a stock that works like the rubber band does to make that weapon an automatic as well.
>
> There is no reason to allow these guns - period.
>
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 11:46:04 -0200
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net (on behalf of Ries Niemi<ries at riesniemi.com>)
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] The most effort for the least results
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA<theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>
>> A similar crisis occurred in 1934.
>> there had been repeated public machine gun murders, battles on city
>> streets, and massacres, and the public was just fed up.
>> Hence, the National Firearms Act of 1934.
>>
>> Interestingly enough, they did not attempt to seize or confiscate
>> firearms.
>> Instead, they declared that law abiding owners of machine guns, and a
>> couple of other categories of weapons, could register their existing
>> guns, keep them, and then would be required to pay a transfer tax upon
>> selling them, and the sale would be tracked.
>> In 68, they modified this law to allow no more new guns to enter the
>> "transfer" pool.
>> So there are a finite number, around a quarter million, legal full
>> auto weapons in circulation. If you want one, you can buy it, although
>> they are not cheap. Supply and demand- a capitalist notion that works
>> quite efficiently here.
>> But they are still, by and large, about half the price of a new
>> harley, and I sure dont see any shortage of people with enough money
>> to buy a new harley out there.
>>
>> If they did something similar with specific, well defined weapons-
>> legalized existing ones, restricted sales of future ones- do you
>> really think 200-300 million firearms currently in circulation is too
>> few?
>>
>> Regardless of rumors, current actual homicides with ILLEGAL full auto
>> weapons are almost non-existent, and there have been something like
>> TWO homicides with legal ones in 80 years. So the law actually works-
>> it keeps the vast majority of fully automatic weapons out of the hands
>> of criminals, and yet allows legal ownership, depending, of course, on
>> State laws- I think five States prohibit full auto ownership.
>>
>> I cant see similar laws not working for fifty caliber sniper rifles,
>> high capacity semi-auto shotguns like the russian Saiga 12 ( an AK
>> looking gun with an 8 round banana clip of 12 gage shells- not exactly
>> common for duck hunting), or, yes, even AR's.
>>
>> ries
>>
>>
>> On Dec 24, 2012, at 12:28 PM,<wmullett at bright.net>
>> <wmullett at bright.net>  wrote:
>>
>> I think some people are missing the point here.  Where do you draw the
>> line with the right to own guns according to the constitution?  - No
>> limits?
>>
>> What is the difference between handguns, rifles and shotguns vs RPG's,
>> shoulder fired missiles, machine guns and other automatic weapons?
>> Obviously there is a big difference and we already recognize that. The
>> latter are all weapons of war and all of them need to be restricted.
>>
>> Australia didn't put armed guards in every school.  Instead they
>> severely limited the ability to own weapons.  Their results are: “In
>> the 18 years prior to the 1996 Australian laws, there were 13 gun
>> massacres (four or more fatalities) in Australia, resulting in 102
>> deaths,”  “There have been none in that category since the Port Arthur
>> laws.”
>>
>> We need to put and end to this foolishness.
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 04:38:18 -0800
>>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net (on behalf of Andy Gladish<anjgladish at gmail.com
>>>> )
>>> Subject: [TheForge] The most effort for the least results
>>> To: "theforge at mailman.qth.net"<theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>>
>>> This is making me feel old: I remember when "Ban All Handguns" was a
>>> very
>>> common headline. When was that, early 70's?
>>> The current dogma (Banning "Assault Rifles" will make the country
>>> peaceful)
>>> is so silly- I get that they creep people out, and I get that if it
>>> were to
>>> prevent one mass murder it would be a good thing.
>>> What kind of sense does it make to ban the gun that is LEAST LIKELY
>>> to be
>>> used in homicide and suicide on any given day (That's according to
>>> the FBI,
>>> but hey, what do they know, right?)
>>>
>>> Can we at least be honest with each other that banning them would
>>> barely
>>> affect murder and suicide rates?
>>> I'm not making this stuff up, look at the FBI Uniform Crime Report.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andy Gladish, Element Fe Metal Studio
>>> Blacksmithing and Blades
>>> 7141 Guemes Island Road, Anacortes, WA 98221
>>> Phone: 360.202.1160
>>> Andy at ElementFe.com
>>>
>>> Visit ElementFe Metal Studio on Facebook! Just search for ElementFe
>>> and hit
>>> the "like" button. Lots of photos and updates weekly.
>>>
>>> Talent develops in tranquillity, character in the full current of
>>> human
>>> life. -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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