[TheForge] The most effort for the least results

Mon Dec 24 11:04:33 EST 2012

obviously, the federal government has a definition of what is fully  
automatic.
and they can send you to prison.
hence, many people tend to use their definition.

and, by their definition, if you convert a bushmaster or an AK to full  
auto, by making new parts or modifying old ones, you have crossed the  
line.
Pretty much every gunsmith in america, and the vast majority of AK and  
AR owners, knows exactly where this line is, and, in public anyway,  
tries to avoid crossing it.

Certainly, there are individuals who convert legal semi-autos to full  
auto. Some get arrested, some do not. But overall, it has not been a  
huge problem- the penalties go up significantly should one of these be  
used in a crime, or discovered by law enforcement, and it is very very  
rare to find a street criminal with one.

again- the law basically works, when it comes to full auto.

ries

On Dec 24, 2012, at 1:40 PM, <wmullett at bright.net> wrote:

What is a fully automatic?

If you look at the post I made last week, a rubber band turns the  
Bushmaster into an "automatic" and another post shows the gun was made  
with a stock that works like the rubber band does to make that weapon  
an automatic as well.

There is no reason to allow these guns - period.

---- Original message ----
> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 11:46:04 -0200
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net (on behalf of Ries Niemi <ries at riesniemi.com 
> >)
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] The most effort for the least results
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>
> A similar crisis occurred in 1934.
> there had been repeated public machine gun murders, battles on city
> streets, and massacres, and the public was just fed up.
> Hence, the National Firearms Act of 1934.
>
> Interestingly enough, they did not attempt to seize or confiscate
> firearms.
> Instead, they declared that law abiding owners of machine guns, and a
> couple of other categories of weapons, could register their existing
> guns, keep them, and then would be required to pay a transfer tax upon
> selling them, and the sale would be tracked.
> In 68, they modified this law to allow no more new guns to enter the
> "transfer" pool.
> So there are a finite number, around a quarter million, legal full
> auto weapons in circulation. If you want one, you can buy it, although
> they are not cheap. Supply and demand- a capitalist notion that works
> quite efficiently here.
> But they are still, by and large, about half the price of a new
> harley, and I sure dont see any shortage of people with enough money
> to buy a new harley out there.
>
> If they did something similar with specific, well defined weapons-
> legalized existing ones, restricted sales of future ones- do you
> really think 200-300 million firearms currently in circulation is too
> few?
>
> Regardless of rumors, current actual homicides with ILLEGAL full auto
> weapons are almost non-existent, and there have been something like
> TWO homicides with legal ones in 80 years. So the law actually works-
> it keeps the vast majority of fully automatic weapons out of the hands
> of criminals, and yet allows legal ownership, depending, of course, on
> State laws- I think five States prohibit full auto ownership.
>
> I cant see similar laws not working for fifty caliber sniper rifles,
> high capacity semi-auto shotguns like the russian Saiga 12 ( an AK
> looking gun with an 8 round banana clip of 12 gage shells- not exactly
> common for duck hunting), or, yes, even AR's.
>
> ries
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2012, at 12:28 PM, <wmullett at bright.net>
> <wmullett at bright.net> wrote:
>
> I think some people are missing the point here.  Where do you draw the
> line with the right to own guns according to the constitution?  - No
> limits?
>
> What is the difference between handguns, rifles and shotguns vs RPG's,
> shoulder fired missiles, machine guns and other automatic weapons?
> Obviously there is a big difference and we already recognize that. The
> latter are all weapons of war and all of them need to be restricted.
>
> Australia didn't put armed guards in every school.  Instead they
> severely limited the ability to own weapons.  Their results are: “In
> the 18 years prior to the 1996 Australian laws, there were 13 gun
> massacres (four or more fatalities) in Australia, resulting in 102
> deaths,”  “There have been none in that category since the Port Arthur
> laws.”
>
> We need to put and end to this foolishness.
>
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 04:38:18 -0800
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net (on behalf of Andy Gladish <anjgladish at gmail.com
>>> )
>> Subject: [TheForge] The most effort for the least results
>> To: "theforge at mailman.qth.net" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>
>> This is making me feel old: I remember when "Ban All Handguns" was a
>> very
>> common headline. When was that, early 70's?
>> The current dogma (Banning "Assault Rifles" will make the country
>> peaceful)
>> is so silly- I get that they creep people out, and I get that if it
>> were to
>> prevent one mass murder it would be a good thing.
>> What kind of sense does it make to ban the gun that is LEAST LIKELY
>> to be
>> used in homicide and suicide on any given day (That's according to
>> the FBI,
>> but hey, what do they know, right?)
>>
>> Can we at least be honest with each other that banning them would
>> barely
>> affect murder and suicide rates?
>> I'm not making this stuff up, look at the FBI Uniform Crime Report.
>>
>> -- 
>> Andy Gladish, Element Fe Metal Studio
>> Blacksmithing and Blades
>> 7141 Guemes Island Road, Anacortes, WA 98221
>> Phone: 360.202.1160
>> Andy at ElementFe.com
>>
>> Visit ElementFe Metal Studio on Facebook! Just search for ElementFe
>> and hit
>> the "like" button. Lots of photos and updates weekly.
>>
>> Talent develops in tranquillity, character in the full current of
>> human
>> life. -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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