[TheForge] todays shooting in school.

Mon Dec 17 18:17:56 EST 2012

Rob,

First, my condolences for your loss, one or 20 each of these people is someones family and the loss cannot be made to go away.

I don't claim to have any answers to what needs to be done, certainly more mental health care is needed for individuals like last weeks shooter. But I do believe we as a nation need to look deeply at the guns role in our culture and ask if we can do something that makes sense to reduce the carnage. It is my opinion that some form of increased responsibility and accountability  is needed. You may not agree, the country may decide that we need do nothing but I feel strongly we need to talk about it.

Jim
On Dec 17, 2012, at 2:56 PM, Rob Fertner wrote:

> Did you watch it? I don't always agree with them on other things, but in
> this video that make the point quite plain. 
> 
> As far as your comment earlier about the need for self-defense. Tell it to
> my cousin, wait you can't, he was murdered by a 16 year old punk in Detroit.
> My cousin's murderer is now serving life with no parole in a state prison.
> Plus, in most uses of a firearm for self-defense, the firearm was not fired.
> The presence of a firearm with the presumed victim stopped the crime. These
> episodes don't get splashed across the news. 
> 
> Rob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James Binnion
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 4:34 PM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] todays shooting in school.
> 
> I love Penn and Teller, they are great entertainers, illusionists and
> comedians but , maybe not the best source of information for thoughtful
> debate. But to each his own.
> 
> 
> On Dec 17, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Rob Fertner wrote:
> 
>> I believe Penn & Teller answer you best.
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXOuuHcjbs&feature=player_embedded#!
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James Binnion
>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:55 PM
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] todays shooting in school.
>> 
>> No, the 2nd amendments context in its time was to provide the new 
>> government with an armed body in case the British decided to try to 
>> take back the wayward colonies. Our standing army and navy were mostly 
>> nonexistent and in no way equipped to withstand a full on assault from 
>> the British. So to have a "well regulated militia" to add their 
>> muskets to the cause would be a great improvement. To try to apply the 
>> 2nd amendment to the situation we are in in the 21st century is 
>> ludicrous, any foe we have as a nation that is crazy enough to try to 
>> tackle us with arms will do so with weapons systems that will not be in
> the least bit affected by any number of armed citizens.
>> Any other interpretation of the purpose of the 2nd amendment is later 
>> day weasel wording and obfuscation to support the rather lucrative 
>> weapons sales in the US and is driven by the fear and macho based 
>> advertising done by said weapons merchants. Given the annual number of 
>> homicides with firearms is about 11,000 per  year one has about a 1 in 
>> 26,000 chance of being a fatality from one.
>> Actually much less because many if not the majority of those deaths 
>> result from altercations between professional criminals. So given that 
>> the annual death rate is about 8 in a thousand  with the exception for 
>> a very few professions and a tiny number of other affected individuals 
>> the argument that one needs a fire arm for self protection is purely a 
>> figment of the fear based marketing of the arms merchants.
>> 
>> For a good example of such advertising look at Bushmasters advertising 
>> program that poses the question,  are you man enough to have a Bushmaster?
>> 
>> http://www.bushmaster.com/press-release-050710.asp
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 17, 2012, at 1:11 PM, <rfertner at cox.net> <rfertner at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> This is why it is constitutional. The Constitution is about 
>>> self-defence
>> and not hunting.
>> 
>> 
>> James Binnion
>> jbin at well.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> James Binnion
> jbin at well.com
> 
> 
> 
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James Binnion
jbin at well.com