[TheForge] todays shooting in school.

Rob Fertner rfertner at cox.net
Mon Dec 17 21:50:04 EST 2012 

Jim,
Thank you for your condolences. I agree about increased responsibility and
accountability. I would direct it towards better mental health services.
Those who can function safely with help get community based resources and
those that pose a danger are dealt with in a stricter setting. I don't
believe normal law-abiding citizens need to bear the brunt of government
power when those that don't aren't proactively dealt with to help prevent
tragedies.
I've said my piece so I'll just leave at that.

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James Binnion
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 5:18 PM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] todays shooting in school.

Rob,

First, my condolences for your loss, one or 20 each of these people is
someones family and the loss cannot be made to go away.

I don't claim to have any answers to what needs to be done, certainly more
mental health care is needed for individuals like last weeks shooter. But I
do believe we as a nation need to look deeply at the guns role in our
culture and ask if we can do something that makes sense to reduce the
carnage. It is my opinion that some form of increased responsibility and
accountability  is needed. You may not agree, the country may decide that we
need do nothing but I feel strongly we need to talk about it.

Jim
On Dec 17, 2012, at 2:56 PM, Rob Fertner wrote:

> Did you watch it? I don't always agree with them on other things, but 
> in this video that make the point quite plain.
> 
> As far as your comment earlier about the need for self-defense. Tell 
> it to my cousin, wait you can't, he was murdered by a 16 year old punk in
Detroit.
> My cousin's murderer is now serving life with no parole in a state prison.
> Plus, in most uses of a firearm for self-defense, the firearm was not
fired.
> The presence of a firearm with the presumed victim stopped the crime. 
> These episodes don't get splashed across the news.
> 
> Rob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James Binnion
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 4:34 PM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] todays shooting in school.
> 
> I love Penn and Teller, they are great entertainers, illusionists and 
> comedians but , maybe not the best source of information for 
> thoughtful debate. But to each his own.
> 
> 
> On Dec 17, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Rob Fertner wrote:
> 
>> I believe Penn & Teller answer you best.
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhXOuuHcjbs&feature=player_embedded#!
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of James Binnion
>> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:55 PM
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] todays shooting in school.
>> 
>> No, the 2nd amendments context in its time was to provide the new 
>> government with an armed body in case the British decided to try to 
>> take back the wayward colonies. Our standing army and navy were 
>> mostly nonexistent and in no way equipped to withstand a full on 
>> assault from the British. So to have a "well regulated militia" to 
>> add their muskets to the cause would be a great improvement. To try 
>> to apply the 2nd amendment to the situation we are in in the 21st 
>> century is ludicrous, any foe we have as a nation that is crazy 
>> enough to try to tackle us with arms will do so with weapons systems 
>> that will not be in
> the least bit affected by any number of armed citizens.
>> Any other interpretation of the purpose of the 2nd amendment is later 
>> day weasel wording and obfuscation to support the rather lucrative 
>> weapons sales in the US and is driven by the fear and macho based 
>> advertising done by said weapons merchants. Given the annual number 
>> of homicides with firearms is about 11,000 per  year one has about a 
>> 1 in
>> 26,000 chance of being a fatality from one.
>> Actually much less because many if not the majority of those deaths 
>> result from altercations between professional criminals. So given 
>> that the annual death rate is about 8 in a thousand  with the 
>> exception for a very few professions and a tiny number of other 
>> affected individuals the argument that one needs a fire arm for self 
>> protection is purely a figment of the fear based marketing of the arms
merchants.
>> 
>> For a good example of such advertising look at Bushmasters 
>> advertising program that poses the question,  are you man enough to have
a Bushmaster?
>> 
>> http://www.bushmaster.com/press-release-050710.asp
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 17, 2012, at 1:11 PM, <rfertner at cox.net> <rfertner at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> This is why it is constitutional. The Constitution is about 
>>> self-defence
>> and not hunting.
>> 
>> 
>> James Binnion
>> jbin at well.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> James Binnion
> jbin at well.com
> 
> 
> 
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James Binnion
jbin at well.com



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