[TheForge] Slack tank...POL OT

[Andrew Vida]

peter fels & phoebe palmer wrote:
> .
> 
> 
>> 	Desperate, scared people don't think about such things.  They act in
>> reflexive resistance to dying.
> In response to overly expensive electricity?

	Are you being intentionally obtuse?  The context was NO HEAT - 
therefore no electricity.  None.  DOn't recall why that came up - not 
that likely a scenario, but not so far out there that it can be entirely 
dismissed.  And we're also not speaking of isolated cases, even a whole 
city, but entire regions.

>>   Such people are far more dangerous than
>> you might think, material superiority notwithstanding.
> Sure...and that's a serious possibility that the govt has to be kept 
> aware of.

	To what end?  So they can call up the armed forces?

> That twisted SOB of a long range sniper inadvertently shifted the 
> balance of power some i think.
> Makes "them" more respectful.

	Lost me there.  To what sniper do you refer?

>>    Unless less of
>> course you just don't give a shit and murder them all because it is more
>> convenient.  Given what I see these days in the eyes of the Bush's and
>> Obammy's of the world, it would no longer surprise me to see it come to
>> pass.
> Nah..then they'd run out of taxpayers.

	Not sure they care about that, ultimately.

>>>> Imagine having a car that ran for 50 years without ever needing
>>>> refueling.  That is the promise of LENR, if it can be made practical.
>>>> I'd be willing to bet that it can be.  Interference is the real issue,
>>>> moving forward.
> Looks like the technology is the real barrier to my mind.

That may change.  Suddenly even.  In that case I am suspecting it will 
be limited for reasons of politics.

>>> Can't make a profit on a 50 year car. Even Checker went under.
>> 	The availability of ubiquitous free energy would change the status quo.
> Sure would!...
> Does bring up unfortunate memories of " Clean, safe too cheap to meter"

There would be no more meters. Each home would have its own.  SMall 
communities might agree to purchase a larger unit for service.

>>    One thing you need to be aware of is that not all corporations are
>> evil as your words seem to indicate.  There are many companies out there
>> for whom profit is an important, yet secondary purpose to their
>> existences.
> Of course there are some fine, responsible companies.

Not some.  Most.  The great majority.  I've worked for quite a few of 
them and have had lunch with a couple of very major CEOs.  Not one of 
them were drooling, eville maniacs.  There are exceptions.  I consider 
Monsanto and Bayer to be two of the most evil entities in existence, 
especially Bayer, given what they have been caught at, including mass 
murder.

> . But i can't imagine PG&E, Standard or Exxon or GM letting a product 
> like that come to market.

	They would fight it tooth and nail to be sure.  That may avail them 
nothing.  People would be behind such technology 101%  I suspect the 
tide would be so great that the only way to stop it would be through 
government initiated violence, which is not out of the question, but 
perhaps not very likely.  They, too, have their limits - particularly if 
"kill them all" is not on the menu.

	Just had a thought... these reactors would be SO cool (all else equal). 
  Use them for raw power, synthesize 3 phase from it, and power 
everything in the house on 3ph.  Bet 3ph home appliances would become 
popular.  Yeah, that would be way cool.

> Like any animal, most corporations will fight tooth and nail to survive.

	Agreed, but there are paradigm shifts that simply cannot be put off 
forever.  As was once observed, there is nothing so powerful as an idea 
whose time has come. :)

>>   I would also warn against viewing profit as evil.
> I don't.

	Your language is not always clear on that point.  Given how many people 
I have encountered who subscribe to the business/profit is evil idiocy, 
I get suspicious when I hear people say certain things that may betray 
such beliefs.  This mindset is far more common than is healthy for this 
nation as a whole.

>> 	Tesla was working on this idea.
> Think he was working on broadcasting power.  but it was neither clean 
> nor cheap. Just handier than wire transmission.

	I was referring to FREE energy, not personal reactors.  My bad.

>>   When he died his body was literally
>> not yet cold when FBI raided his place and took all his notes.
> He may have been obnoxious but he was brilliant and should have been 
> supported all down the line,
> instead of screwed over like he was. Capitalism in action?

	Obnoxious?  Not to my knowledge.  Quite the gentlemanly sort as I have 
gathered.  He was a lousy businessman - naive to a fault for way too 
long and got swindled badly by that scumbag Edison, may he rot in hell. 
  The only large player who didn't screw him at every turn was George 
Westinghouse and even he betrayed him in the end precisely because 
either he didn't want to wreck the balance of power or his colleagues 
put some sort of gun to his head to force him.  Who knows for sure? 
Even history screws him - giving radio credit to that buffoon Marconi 
who stole everything he "knew" from Tesla who made radio transmissions 2 
to 4 years prior to Macaroni.

	Tesla is, thus far, the single greatest creative engineering genius 
that has ever blossomed in the history of humanity.  His genius was 
truly freakish.  Newton, Einstein, and not even Bohr can compare for 
accomplishment within a lifetime.  His work was simply staggering in its 
subtlety and scope.  He did some crazy stuff.

>> They would not fold.  Auto industry could still build cars as they now
>> do.  The 10-20 year service life of the cars would end with the reactors
>> recycled.
> They can easily build cars with a 25 year service life ., but they used 
> to be designed to last 3 to 5 years, by in large.

	Demand will present them with the choice to bow to the will of the 
market or die.  They will likely bow.  If they die, there will be plenty 
of others to take up the slack.  Such free energy, coupled with digital 
technology will revolutionize manufacturing.  I would predict that small 
and even tiny manufacturers would pop up, assuming the ridiculous 
government regulatory framework is peeled back such that the barriers to 
entry are taken down.  They serve no purpose but to keep competition 
down.  Effectively free energy, however, would likely change that even 
if regulation remains.  The government would take a royal shit, no 
doubt.  They might even attempt to erect even higher barriers, but I am 
not yet convinced they would succeed.  Some might just say "fuck you" 
and move forward in any event.  Get thousands of companies doing it and 
"government" would be pretty impotent to do anything about it, 
especially given the snail's pace of our courts.  Fuck 'em.  We don't 
need them that much.  Press on - ignore them and be prosperous. :)

> Though some of the Japanese cars have gone 350,000 miles without major 
> problems.
>>   Converge the automobile power applications such that the
>> reactors become commodity items and get used over and over.  The cars
>> remain as they are, just not burning oil.
> A satisfactory battery could do the same.

	Still leaves the problem of centralized sourcing of energy, which 
should come to an end as soon as technically practical to do so. 
Imagine the millions of miles of transmission facilities coming down 
forever.  Sounds good to me.

>> Gasoline and diesel represent , as I recall, a mere 9% of the industry's
>> output... or maybe 7%.  We will not be weaned off of oil for at least
>> another 25 to 50 years, barring the arrival of space aliens who will
>> either save us from ourselve of eat us as hor's d'oeuvre.
> The conversion to Natural gas isn't a very big leap and ought to stave 
> off major change for a while.

Doesn't solve the core problem of central sourcing, pollution, energy 
efficiency, and so forth.  Another palliative measure.  If there is any 
reasonable chance of developing practical LENR technology, I would drop 
everything else and concentrate on that with free market fury.

>> The power industry as it exists might well go down.  Boo hooty hoo.  The
>> pressures to allow such devices would be enormous.  Refusal to allow it
>> could get a lot of people hurt.
> The probable  adversarys are much more subtle and powerful than you are 
> allowing for..

	I doubt that.  People are fed up with the status quo.  Seeing a light 
at the end of this particular tunnel would have them sprinting toward it 
and I bet that once educated on what this paradigm shift would mean to 
the world, to THEM, bottling it up would be a futile effort.  When 
people are determined in sufficient numbers, those calling themselves 
"government" cannot stop them, again, unless the mob is will to kill 
people en masse to stop them.  Not unprecedented, but a more risky 
proposition here than in other nations because we are still well armed 
and very dangerous by that virtue.  Three hundred pissed off, well armed 
Americans v. maybe, *maybe* 1 million government forces... things would 
be interesting at the least.  Even more so was the Oval Office to call 
for UN intervention.

Technology is a two edged sword to be sure.  Our only hope to be free is 
to make sure advances remain in EVERYONE'S hands and not some group of 
elitist jerkoffs.  As it is there is plenty of scary shit in those 
hands.  I've worked on some of it and can tell you that most people 
don't want to know about stuff like that.  They'd never be able to sleep 
again.

>>>>> Hardly advocating giving up the sparks, but think we need to be
>>>>> considering the whole cost of burning coal.
>>>> Right now we have no other choices.  Take heat away from people in
>>>> winter on a large scale and see where that gets us.
>>> Natural gas heats our asses just fine.
>>>    Wish i had it here. local propane monopoly sticks it to us.
>>>
>>> We have wells, so we have unlimited free gas, which is a great blessing
>>> especially since we are broke.  But tomorrow I will hear from
>>> Boots&Coots whether they will hire me and if so, we won't be broke no
>>> mo'.  Still, I have to build a large gas forge now so I can take
>>> advantage of the 35PSI line. :)
>    May B&C grovel at your feet , stuffing $ in your pockets,  and the 
> new forge come soon, sweet and hot.

	No royalties, sadly, but all the free gas I can burn, which is a rare 
deal because most arrangements are for a limited amount - though usually 
quite generous, like 400K cu ft./yr.  That is a lot of gas, but I bet I 
could burn through that and more in a year. :)