[TheForge] temporary heat shield

Thu Feb 5 18:21:02 EST 2009

I would not use aluminum for a heat sheild. It is a very good conductor of heat. Not many better. Iron does would work and realy does not conduct heat that well. 

From: theforge-request at mailman.qth.netSubject: TheForge Digest, Vol 61, Issue 16To: theforge at mailman.qth.netDate: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:16:03 -0500Send TheForge mailing list submissions to	theforge at mailman.qth.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit	http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforgeor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to	theforge-request at mailman.qth.net You can reach the person managing the list at	theforge-owner at mailman.qth.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of TheForge digest..."--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: adveniam at att.netTo: terrylr at blauedonau.com; theforge at mailman.qth.netDate: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 07:22:04 -0600Subject: Re: [TheForge] temporary heat shieldTemporary? just to keep from burning the place down?Black iron, even galvy if the distance is sufficient to keep from burning the zinc. Mike Graf terry l. ridder wrote:> hello;>> i am in need of a temporary heat shield and seeking some advice and> suggestions.>> for peace of mind i would like two heat shields spaced one each a part> with ceramic standoffs. the question is which is the better sheet metals> to use for the heat shields.>> highly polished aluminium would be the first choice since it would> reflect the unwanted heat , lightweight, and low in cost.>> where would i be able to obtain 2 sheets of 4x8 highly polished> aluminum?>> highly polished chromium steel would be the last choice since it would> refleact the unwanted heat at the trade offs of increased weight and> cost.>> where would i be able to obtain 2 sheets of 4x8 highly polished> chromium steel?>> the metal heat shield is temporary until we are able to construct a> warming tile heat shield later in the year.>> the metal will not be exposed to salt air/ocean air/open seas air for> that long of time so i am not worried about corrosion.>> poor ascii art below.>>    ==================+ +============== <-- metal overhead>         | <-- wooden frame bulkhead>         |            | |>         | l i        | | <-- double wall stove pipe duravent dvl leads to>         | l i        | |     small engine room exhaust stack.>         | l i        | |>         | l i     +------+>         | l i     |      | <-- harman oakwood wood stove>         | l i     |      |>         | l i     +------+>         | l i     /      \>    ================================= <-- metal deck>>         l -- 1st heat shield 1 inch above the deck and 1 inch from the>              wooden frame bulkhead.>>         i -- 2nd heat shield 1 inch above the deck and 1 inch from the>              1st heat shield.>>         the gap between the stove and the 2nd heat shield will be 12>         inches.>>    --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: countrymetals at gmail.comTo: adveniam at att.net; theforge at mailman.qth.netDate: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:30:21 -0500Subject: Re: [TheForge] temporary heat shieldThe firewall in your car is 16 ga steel. On 2/5/09, GRAF <adveniam at att.net> wrote:> Temporary? just to keep from burning the place down?> Black iron, even galvy if the distance is sufficient to keep from> burning the zinc.>> Mike Graf>> terry l. ridder wrote:>> hello;>>>> i am in need of a temporary heat shield and seeking some advice and>> suggestions.>>>> for peace of mind i would like two heat shields spaced one each a part>> with ceramic standoffs. the question is which is the better sheet metals>> to use for the heat shields.>>>> highly polished aluminium would be the first choice since it would>> reflect the unwanted heat , lightweight, and low in cost.>>>> where would i be able to obtain 2 sheets of 4x8 highly polished>> aluminum?>>>> highly polished chromium steel would be the last choice since it would>> refleact the unwanted heat at the trade offs of increased weight and>> cost.>>>> where would i be able to obtain 2 sheets of 4x8 highly polished>> chromium steel?>>>> the metal heat shield is temporary until we are able to construct a>> warming tile heat shield later in the year.>>>> the metal will not be exposed to salt air/ocean air/open seas air for>> that long of time so i am not worried about corrosion.>>>> poor ascii art below.>>>>    ==================+ +============== <-- metal overhead>>         | <-- wooden frame bulkhead>>         |            | |>>         | l i        | | <-- double wall stove pipe duravent dvl leads to>>         | l i        | |     small engine room exhaust stack.>>         | l i        | |>>         | l i     +------+>>         | l i     |      | <-- harman oakwood wood stove>>         | l i     |      |>>         | l i     +------+>>         | l i     /      \>>    ================================= <-- metal deck>>>>         l -- 1st heat shield 1 inch above the deck and 1 inch from the>>              wooden frame bulkhead.>>>>         i -- 2nd heat shield 1 inch above the deck and 1 inch from the>>              1st heat shield.>>>>         the gap between the stove and the 2nd heat shield will be 12>>         inches.>>>>> ______________________________________________________________> TheForge mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> -- Sent from my mobile device --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: osan at netlabs.netTo: theforge at mailman.qth.netDate: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:50:44 -0500Subject: Re: [TheForge] Peter Schiffer obituary OT  Justin Fisher wrote:> A Vida wrote:> > Consumer at fault... to a degree, yes. Artificial labor arbitrage due>  to trading with non-free economies such as China are a far bigger > culprit. Free market economies only work if in fact the markets are > free. ALL free. As far as I can tell, none are. Not a one. We're the > closest thing to it and we're not there by a fair shot. Those who say>  "see! free market capitalism doesn't work!" are numbskulls who don't>  know the first thing about the topic.> > If no markets are truly free (no argument from me on that), then how> would we know that they would work if a truly free market existed? It> seems like it is more an article of faith than a provable fact. 	There have been free markets in the past.  The kings of Europe, AFAIK, beyond taxation concerns left their markets to do as they pleased most of the time.  They were generally smart enough to know that messing with the market tended to upset the tax base, which was not good for the business of kinging.  There seem to be numerous notable examples of sovereigns departing from this wisdom and the results have been generally miserable for everyone. 	The USA was a mainly free market up until the about the turn of the century when all of a sudden the feds decided they had to stick their noses into other peoples' business with drug laws, gun laws, and so forth, none if which have done us any good and arguably much harm.  As we progressed in time, the philosophy or regulation run amok tightened its grip on our lives and look where we are - in a full blown financial collapse and heading for social collapse, which will be calamitous if it comes to pass.  What we have been doing has not worked.  Time to try something else.> > I don't see any evidence that the free-wheeling years on Wall Street> (which looked a lot like capitalism to me) worked out very well.  	Perhaps this is because you don't know what to look for.  There are ostensible watch dogs who are supposed to be keeping an eye on the activities of business with an eye toward the criminal (anti-trust, poisoning the food, selling products that explode and kill their customers, etc).  They were asleep at the switch or ordered to stand down (dunno which... will research this one day, I suppose).  Some practices are so patently and obviously unsound that even those not initiated into business training would be able to identify them as such, if they paid attention.  Lending money at 0.5% when the nominal inflation rate is 3.4% is a pretty good indicator that something is wrong.  The Fed was *literally* paying you to haul the cash away.  Are they that stupid, given that it is a privately held, for-profit corporation?  I doubt it.  This leads us very directly to the question "then what were they up to?"  This is a question that nobody in mainstream media is treating publicly.  > The> companies would be bankrupt except for taxpayer bailouts, 	They should have gone bankrupt.  It would have served as an object lesson to those who survived that get-rich-quick schemes generally do not work except for a few in privileged positions.  unfortunately the past and current administrations made and will make all the wrong moves, judging by what I see and the results so far, and we will continue our slide into economic oblivion.  > the> financial system is pretty well shut down thanks to these financial> geniuses.  Mainly because they had the system rigged for their> benefit. 	The Fed put out bait - the first few takers pretty well painted the rest into corners.  If Bank A takes the bait and can sell mortgages for 2.5% on an ARM, Bank B pretty much will have to follow suit or be left behind once the stoopid customers start flocking to Bank A's door for what they think is a sweet deal.  It becomes an all or nothing affair - once the first one goes, they hold a great short term competitive advantage.  The others have to do the same in order not to lose out.  In banking, idle assets are shrinking assets.  If nobody is buying your money, you are slowly going out of business, or in some cases not so slowly. 	The consumer, being the generally ignorant slug that he is, never stopped to consider the possible repercussions of buying that 2.5% mortgage.  When this was all happening, I immediately said to myself that the RE market is going to explode with inflation, and that is precisely what happened.  It was obvious and it was absolutely inevitable under those conditions.  The great lesson here is that EVERYONE is to blame for being morbidly greedy and inexcusably ignorant, except perhaps for the Fed, who I suspect knew precisely what they were doing, though to what end I cannot say with surety. 	What happened in the RE market is a strong analog of the larger economic situation when a government starts printing too much money. Too much money was made available to the market at too low a cost (equiv. of printing too much paper) and the RE values went through the roof as speculators started buying like mad, driving the prices sky-high (hyperinflation).  My little house in Freehold NJ, which I bought for too much money in 1987 for $170K recently sold for $660K!  Absurd.> > This is why honest labor with real materials yielding a quality> product is a hell of a lot more attractive to me. 	No arguments there, but economic reality says otherwise.  It's probably a sign of the times we're in. --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: freemab222 at gmail.comTo: terrylr at blauedonau.com; theforge at mailman.qth.netDate: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:07:54 -0500Subject: Re: [TheForge] temporary heat shieldTerry, How temporary is temporary?   Your ideas sound like overkill to me,though I don't argue that you should be careful. When soldering copper pipe with a torch, one typically uses a simplemetal shield to protect the wood nearby.  The metal should not touchthe wood.  Some torches come with a C-shaped shield that clips ontothe burner end.  It's a double-layer of steel and, in principle,protects burnables on the outside of the C from the flame which is onthe inside of the C. My thought would be to get some sort of insulator, and put thinaluminum (like heavy-duty foil or flashing) on the surface toward thestove.  For example, build a portable "wall" from sheet metal studs,with wallboard on one side and sheet aluminum on the other, fiberglassinsulation between.  Unfortunately, commercial fiberglass, while itwon't support a flame, contains a burnable binder, so it would be bestif it not touch the aluminum.  Fiberglass without binder would work,but may be difficult to work with and difficult to find. I don't think the polish on the aluminum is an issue.  Foil off a rollwould probably do fine, but it would be easily torn.  Flashing oraluminum foil is probably shiny enough.  The difference in the totalreflectivity between "shiny" and "mirror finish" is not all thatgreat.  The latter you can see yourself in, the former reflects morediffusely. On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 3:43 AM, terry l. ridder <terrylr at blauedonau.com> wrote:> hello;>> i am in need of a temporary heat shield and seeking some advice and> suggestions.>> for peace of mind i would like two heat shields spaced one each a part> with ceramic standoffs. the question is which is the better sheet metals> to use for the heat shields.>> highly polished aluminium would be the first choice since it would> reflect the unwanted heat , lightweight, and low in cost.>> where would i be able to obtain 2 sheets of 4x8 highly polished> aluminum?>> highly polished chromium steel would be the last choice since it would> refleact the unwanted heat at the trade offs of increased weight and> cost.>> where would i be able to obtain 2 sheets of 4x8 highly polished> chromium steel?>> the metal heat shield is temporary until we are able to construct a> warming tile heat shield later in the year.>> the metal will not be exposed to salt air/ocean air/open seas air for> that long of time so i am not worried about corrosion.>> poor ascii art below.>>   ==================+ +============== <-- metal overhead>        | <-- wooden frame bulkhead>        |            | |>        | l i        | | <-- double wall stove pipe duravent dvl leads to>        | l i        | |     small engine room exhaust stack.>        | l i        | |>        | l i     +------+>        | l i     |      | <-- harman oakwood wood stove>        | l i     |      |>        | l i     +------+>        | l i     /      \>   ================================= <-- metal deck>>        l -- 1st heat shield 1 inch above the deck and 1 inch from the>             wooden frame bulkhead.>>        i -- 2nd heat shield 1 inch above the deck and 1 inch from the>             1st heat shield.>>        the gap between the stove and the 2nd heat shield will be 12>        inches.>> --> terry l. ridder ><>> ______________________________________________________________> TheForge mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>   -- BruceNJ The total lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working. --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: osan at netlabs.netTo: theforge at mailman.qth.netDate: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:12:33 -0500Subject: Re: [TheForge] Peter Schiffer obituary OT  Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote: > Not as fast as our screeching halt by far. They are in better shape and, > i point out, still loaning us money hand over fist! 	Good point, and that isn't anything good for us. > There are more free market influences in China now than any time in our > lifetimes, by far. 	True, but still not enough, particularly in terms of labor cost.  If the labor market was freer, the problem would still persist for a long while because it will take more years for the bulk of China's population to bootstrap itself up to the higher living standard.  That cannot happen overnight.> >> Therefore those ninnies who say Rand was wrong don't know what they are >> talking about because it has never been properly tried in the >> post/industrial era. > The bush admin was as close as i'd ever like to get. 	They weren't even in the same ballpark.  And let us not ignore the fact that Clinton did more to make this disaster possible than any other president since Wilson and FDR.  If you want to cast stones, at least be precise and complete about it. >> 	Furthermore, if the Chinese government were anything better than >> malevolent, they would be pushing for a significant rise in the >> average/median income of its citizens.  It does precisely the opposite, >> the effect being to concentrate power in their hands ever more definitely.> Not at all true...That's crass oversimplification , generalization and > not supported by the facts. 	As of today it still is.  It is in fact as stark and simple as that. Labor rates are deliberately suppressed.  That is not a hallmark of a free market. > The power that has been theirs all along is relaxing to an amazing > degree and is significantly more benign than in even the recent past. 	At this time, only economically so and only to the degree they see fit.   They maintain a suicide grip on just about everything.  I will, however, agree that this almost certainly WILL change in time, but it really has not done so yet in any degree I would call significant. > They have come a very long way from Chairman Mao's day. 	Agreed. > China has become astoundingly westernized considering. 	That is because Mao was just another communist stooge who thought he could alter basic human nature. > Way too late..they did that a long time ago. 	Right. > We thought we could exploit them on a huge scale and corrupt them with > our clever yankee capitalism. It used to be the dream of conservative US > businessmen. 	Yet the liberals took almost all of the most effective steps toward making it possible.  Mr. Heads, meet Mr. Tails. > Now they are trouncing us at our own game and loaning us the money to > thoroughly fuck ourselves over...while they hold the string. 	Precisely correct.  We are probably in for some very black days. > And who are we to read anybody the riot act when we've fucked up so badly? 	At this point it is probably all moot anyhow. > We keep trying 	How?  Where? > We, meanwhile, are going over to hi-def TV and diet snacks. 	The scent of death is on the air, it would seem. > Whoah...you shifting position on me? Makes me dizzy...OK, dizzier.> Equal compensation for poultry comes next!. 	Not at all.  I can see it from many POVs.  From theirs, it makes sense to screw the US citizen if it makes them loads more cash.  It reminds me of that line from "Oh Brother Where Art Thou?" where they guy, when asked why he sold his soul to the devil, responded "I wasn't using it". 	Yeeehaw maw! --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: rickkorinek at verizon.netTo: theforge at mailman.qth.netDate: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:19:54 -0600Subject: Re: [TheForge] temporary heat shieldNFPA 211, the International Residential Building Code and the UL listedinstructions that came with the solid fuel burning appliance specify minimumrequired clearances to combustibles as well as clearance reductions that canbe done with various additional forms of protection.  -Rick -----Original Message-----From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John AllenSent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:30 AMTo: adveniam at att.net; Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANASubject: Re: [TheForge] temporary heat shield The firewall in your car is 16 ga steel. On 2/5/09, GRAF <adveniam at att.net> wrote:> Temporary? just to keep from burning the place down?> Black iron, even galvy if the distance is sufficient to keep from> burning the zinc.>> Mike Graf>> terry l. ridder wrote:>> hello;>>>> i am in need of a temporary heat shield and seeking some advice and>> suggestions.>>>> for peace of mind i would like two heat shields spaced one each a part>> with ceramic standoffs. the question is which is the better sheet metals>> to use for the heat shields.>>>> highly polished aluminium would be the first choice since it would>> reflect the unwanted heat , lightweight, and low in cost.>>>> where would i be able to obtain 2 sheets of 4x8 highly polished>> aluminum?>>>> highly polished chromium steel would be the last choice since it would>> refleact the unwanted heat at the trade offs of increased weight and>> cost.>>>> where would i be able to obtain 2 sheets of 4x8 highly polished>> chromium steel?>>>> the metal heat shield is temporary until we are able to construct a>> warming tile heat shield later in the year.>>>> the metal will not be exposed to salt air/ocean air/open seas air for>> that long of time so i am not worried about corrosion.>>>> poor ascii art below.>>>>    ==================+ +============== <-- metal overhead>>         | <-- wooden frame bulkhead>>         |            | |>>         | l i        | | <-- double wall stove pipe duravent dvl leads to>>         | l i        | |     small engine room exhaust stack.>>         | l i        | |>>         | l i     +------+>>         | l i     |      | <-- harman oakwood wood stove>>         | l i     |      |>>         | l i     +------+>>         | l i     /      \>>    ================================= <-- metal deck>>>>         l -- 1st heat shield 1 inch above the deck and 1 inch from the>>              wooden frame bulkhead.>>>>         i -- 2nd heat shield 1 inch above the deck and 1 inch from the>>              1st heat shield.>>>>         the gap between the stove and the 2nd heat shield will be 12>>         inches.>>>>> ______________________________________________________________> TheForge mailing list> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> -- Sent from my mobile device______________________________________________________________TheForge mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforgeHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html  
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