[TheForge] new shed design and other ramblings

[terry l. ridder]

hello ries;

thank you for the time you spent in replying.
i really appreciate your thoughtful replies.

On Wed, 15 Apr 2009, ries wrote:

> I think it really depends on if you want to work with the tools,
> or work ON the tools.
>
> If your primary goal is to work with 3phase equipment, to make
> stuff, there is no doubt it will be cheaper and easier in the
> long run to just pay edison what they ask.
>

i am attempting to build an environment for disabled engineers,
machinist, experiementers, and tinkers may come to design projects,
build projects, broaden their knowledge and regain a sense of
accomplishment that they have lost with their disabilities.

there would be group projects which would further the goals of the
ships. some of those projects would be less expensive and more reliable
remotely operated vehicles (rov).

there are other group projects planned with are meant to help the
community. design and build an emergency field kitchen for deployment in
the event of a natural disaster or man-made disaster. design and build a
vehicle to provide emergency power to shelters and non-profits during
the natural or man-made disasters. the designs and plans would be
available to any organization that wishes to build them for their
community.

there are several projects planned for sustainable agriculture.
also for sustainable community businesses. appropriate technology is
part of this also. part of this is the growing of the corn and using the
cold presses to liberate the oil from the corn. using the corn meal
by-product for livestock feed. building a bio-diesel conversion plant
that takes the raw corn oil and coverts it to bio-diesel for use in the
tractors and heaters.

>
> If, on the other hand, you enjoy puttering with tools and power
> systems as an end in itself, then, by all means, use the generator.
> Just be aware of what you are doing.
>

i am  attempting to get a working knowledge and understanding of 3-phase
power so that i am able to run and care for the marine diesel generators
on the ships. i do not like being ignorant and make a costly mistake at
some point in the future.

>
> Generators work, and are used all the time, in situations where
> there is no utility power. But it is not hard to see that any
> business that is actually concerned with production and profit
> pays the hookup fee.
>

i agree with you on this. i do not want to fall into the this is the
way it has been done for decades so this is the way it should be done
thinking. i want to allow the people to in a sense rethink how some
common everyday tasks or utilities are currently being done and how
could they be improved to lessen the cost, lessen the environmental
impact. i do not want to stifle their creativity by providing a one
size fits all environment or on the flip side by providing no basic
services that they spend their creativity building the environment
they need to be creative.

>
> Generators require maintenance, fuel, oversight, and expensive
> rebuilds, usually when you can least afford the time and money.
> I have a friend who runs a tender in Alaska - he has a half dozen
> Detroit Diesels on it, running generators, as well as propulsion.
> He has become an expert on rebuilding em, and stocks more repair
> parts on his boat than most engine repair shops. But out in
> Bristol Bay, extension cords are not an option. So he copes, but
> he never fools himself into thinking its a cheap or easy, or very
> reliable way to produce power.
>

this is true. from what i am able to glean from the ships' maintenance
records. it would appear that several of the marine diesel generators
had to be either rebuilt or replaced several times. judging from the
chief engineering officer's logs the diesels were not maintained with
the proper preventive maintenance as evidenced by the lack of preventive
maintenance records. the generator in the new shop would require at
least one day a week of preventive maintenance when it is not running.
the generator when it is running requires according to the
owners/operator's manual hourly maintenance and checks to ensure proper
operation and less downtime.

>
> If this thing is as old as you say - what are the repair parts
> availability?
>

this spare marine diesel generator came with a complete spares kit.
there are enough spare in the kit to perform at least one complete tear
down and rebuild of the diesel and at least one tear down and rebuild
of the generator end. the spares are still packed in their oiled brown
linen wrappings. i am impressed with the spares kit and the diesel
generator itself.

spare parts would become an issue once the spares kit is depleted.

>
> How much time, every day, are you prepared to devote to the care
> and feeding of a generator?
>

at any given time i am assuming that there will be at least 3 people
working on various projects that would share in the care and feeding of
the generator. i can see that the care and feeding of the generator may
take second place when they are working on a project. the generator care
and feeding could very well become neglected.

>
> How much time do you have to troubleshoot, reinvent, and repair
> complicated power generation systems that are unique to you -
> meaning no online manuals, no off the shelf parts, no calling
> a repairman?
>

i am finding that out with the ships. each one is unique and there are
no repairmen to call.

>
>
> If you are willing to live with that stuff, then you will be fine.
>

well concerning the ships i have signed up for that whether i like it or
not. concerning the new shed/shop that is open for changes. i am still
working through ideas and nothing is set in stone as of yet.

>
> Me, I tend to focus on the actual making of metalwork in my shop.
> So I want machines that work when my employees flick the switch.
> I want to be able to make a phone call, and have repair parts sent
> out fed-ex that day. And I find that utility supplied 3 phase is
> remarkably cheap for the work it does. Yes, there are often demand
> charges, and you need to size your equipment and figure out your
> workloads accordingly. And, in some cases, its a lot cheaper to
> spend $2500 on a good commercial phase converter, and NOT get
> utility 3 phase. But I sincerley doubt you can produce electricity
> cheaper than Edison can, if you are honest, and figure in all the
> costs of owning and maintaining a generator.
>

perhaps build the phase converter for less than $2500.00 usd and broaden
the knowledge base. ;-)

<snip>

>
> Ries
>
>

-- 
terry l. ridder ><>