[TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust

Wed Jun 25 08:26:48 EDT 2008

Keziah

Very interesting,  first time I have heard about using molasses.

Could you explain how you use it?   straight out of the bottle?? can it be 
used diluted? how long do you leave it on? any other tips on the process of 
using it vs the why it works that you have already given us.

Thanks.

D-ski
Westminster, MD
"The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Hirst" <saltydog335 at aol.com>
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust

> Frosty:  you answered your own question on the phosphoric acid. Nasty 
> stuff
> in any strength.  Not sure it would work in electrolyte bath.  The
> electrolysis tends to redeposit the iron back onto itself, while the
> phosphoric acid tends to dissolve the elemental iron.  The chemical action
> of the acid and the electrlysis are two different reactions.  The sole
> function of the ion in the bath is to conduct electricity, which in turn
> exactly reverses what happens in the the creation of ferric
> oxide -oxidation. Phosphoric acid dissolves the iron itself, which is why
> its used to etch for other fininsh preps.  Neither molasses nor evaporust
> etch the iron.  They work by chelation, a process very different from both
> electrlysis and acid etching.    They both leave the iron one shade of 
> grey
> short of bright. In fact, with a little wax varnish, this thin layer makes 
> a
> pretty good finish. With a little 4/0 steel wool, the piece is bright.  My
> guess is that both molasses and evaporust are  only strong enough to grab
> the iron atom away from the oxygen bond, they leave that last ferrous 
> oxide
> molecule bonded however weakly to the elemental iron.
>
> Molasses is cheap easy and safe. You know the old saw about
> "Faster-better-cheaper: pick any two".  Molasses is cheaper than 
> Phosphoric
> acid and better in respect of  handling , safety etc.   Evaporust is 
> faster
> and better than molasses, and much better than phosphoric acid on safety 
> and
> convenience.  The stuff is completely non-toxic, non corrosive-explosive-
> you name it.  ALL IT DOES is eat rust.  It does so by attacking the iron 
> in
> the oxide bond and will not touch anything else, including elemental iron.
> Despite the recommendation to wear rubber gloves,  it makes a pretty good
> hand cleaner that seems to specialize in the hand dirt that my shop
> produces.  Better than any waterless or soap I have
> tried.  I have read the MSDS on it meticulously and can't find any reason
> why skin contact is even a concern.  I believe it contains a detergent 
> that
> cuts through a certain amount of grease to let the chelating agent get to
> the iron. You can even diospose of it in the sink: its bio degradeable. 
> In
> fact detergent qualities seem to outlast its rust removal effectiveness, 
> and
> I may keep the depleted product just for that purpose.
>
> I am giving a clinic soon at the Historical Society on rust removal from
> blacksmith tools and forged items (part of the shop restoration process) 
> and
> phosphoric acid will not be nvolved:  only chelation, electrloysis, wire
> brushing (hard and soft) and abrasives.
>
> I'll let you know how things progress
>
> Keziah
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust
>
>
>> Keep us posted on the Evaporust please, I like the sound of it.
>>
>> Rather than using molasses why don't you use dilute phosphoric acid? 
>> Naval
>> Jelly is about 30% with a jelling agent so it sticks but if you dilute it
>> in water it makes a fine bath.
>>
>> I don't recommend buying lab grade phosphoric 99.97% like I did. It works
>> great but is scary to handle. I'm used to handling this kind of thing but
>> there's still a pucker factor involved with anything that reacts
>> explosively with concrete, etc.
>>
>> A couple weeks ago I was looking for some Extend and found this. Klean
>> Strip Phosphoric Prep & Etch. It isn't as pure as the lab grade acid so 
>> it
>> isn't nearly as scary and works well. It's also a LOT cheaper than either
>> the pure deal or Naval Jelly. $14/gl at Home Depot.
>>
>> http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=32&prodid=81
>>
>> My next thought is to use phosphoric as the electrolyte in the bath.
>>
>> Frosty
>> -------------------------------
>> If it ain't forged
>> it ain't real.
>> Wrought iron is.
>> The FrostWorks
>>
>> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>>
>>
>> From: "Peter Hirst" <saltydog335 at aol.com>
>>
>>
>>> By coincidence, my first Evaporust arrived today as well.  My shop is
>>> literally a stone's throw from salt water, and at times it seems as if
>>> rust control is half of my shop maintenance effort. I keep a permanent
>>> electrolytic setup that I can clip a piece into any time.  Since I set 
>>> it
>>> up 3 months ago it has been shut off for no more than a a day or two at 
>>> a
>>> time. I am not sure yet, but I think the optimal rust removal regiime is
>>> gong to be first treatment in the electrlytic rig and finished with
>>> Evaporust. Depends on how  Evaporust works on black oxide.  I also keep 
>>> a
>>> tub of 9:1 molasses solution for low cost, long term treatment. 
>>> ANything
>>> I don't need for two weeks goes in the molasses.  Really small stuff 
>>> oges
>>> right in the Evaporust.  Everything else gets zapped for a few hours 
>>> then
>>> finished in Evaporust.  Evaporust is definitley on my short list of
>>> products that I can endorse, and I ma thinking about bottling the stuff
>>> and handing out smaples with every major purchase.  I already do that
>>> with my wax finish, and its a great promotion.
>>>
>>>
>>
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