[TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust
Peter Hirst
saltydog335 at aol.com
Wed Jun 25 10:15:41 EDT 2008
Molasses on rust
OK, but just a tad more background first: sometimes a little why can save a
lot of what. Molasses works by chelation, essentially by grabbinng the
metal atom at two valence points - pinching it like a crab claw (The word is
derived from the Greek root "chele" the claw or pincer of a crab). It is
the process by which plants are able to extract minerals -- especialy
metals -- from the soil. Ergo therefore hence and consequently . . . it is
very user friendly and works best in a fairly weak solution. You can use
rubber gloves, but I don't bother. Get the rawest form of molasses you can
find. "Blackstrap" is best. Dilute in water 9 to 1. Best used in a
covered container, since natural organisms will set off fermentation in an
open container. Plan to soak the workpiece in this bath for 2 weeks,
although the red rust will turn to black much sooner. The process can be
moved along somewhat if the rust is heavy. Outer layers will weaken in a
few days and may be removed with an abrasive pad. After 2 weeks, a rinse in
clean water will reveal almost bright metal. Bright finish can the be
achieved by thorough rinse and abrasive pad.
Note, this stuff may look like a disaster after a couple of days: brown
foam black sticky solution, black work pieces. Never fear, its all beningn
and cleans up nice in water.
For a really nice satin finish, leave it black. It behaves very much like
forge scale. It is chemically the same --FeO-- ferrous oxide, but seems to
have a more stable bond with the underlying elemental iron. Judicious
application of the abrasive pad and wire brush will take it through every
shade from dull black to bright. Seal it with your favorite varnish at
just the right shade and voila, a beautifull black oxide finish.
I deal with so much rust around here I have set up a corner of the shop for
perpetual treatment. A permanent molasses bath, a quick setup and break
down evaporust bath, and a permanent electrolysis bath. I usually spend
some time there every day. Among my projects is a collection of tongs that
have been waiting for over 20 years to be made pesentable. A tool that is
not worth the price even if free because of the restoration time may now be
worth the price. A seized monkey wrench, say, might take an hour or more
with penetrant, heat, disassembly and wire brush to restore to presentable
appearance. In the molasses bath its the amount of time it takes to drop it
in, take it out, scrub and oil it. Tools with tighter fitting parts may
still need disassembly, but its still a lot quicker after all the rust that
the solution can reach has been broken down. Box of nails left in a corner
found rusty? Drop them in the bath. Old post drill too rusted to be worth
it? Pick it up for pocket change, degrease and throw it in a tub for a
couple of weeks: you really couldnt get to it before then anyway, now could
you? Oops, left it in the bath for too long? No such thing. Just take it
out when you have time to work on it: it wont rust up or get etched as long
as it is submerged.
I'll post more as the experiments continue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albin Drzewianowski" <dski1045 at qis.net>
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust
> Keziah
>
> Very interesting, first time I have heard about using molasses.
>
> Could you explain how you use it? straight out of the bottle?? can it be
> used diluted? how long do you leave it on? any other tips on the process
> of using it vs the why it works that you have already given us.
>
> Thanks.
>
> D-ski
> Westminster, MD
> "The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Hirst" <saltydog335 at aol.com>
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust
>
>
>> Frosty: you answered your own question on the phosphoric acid. Nasty
>> stuff
>> in any strength. Not sure it would work in electrolyte bath. The
>> electrolysis tends to redeposit the iron back onto itself, while the
>> phosphoric acid tends to dissolve the elemental iron. The chemical
>> action
>> of the acid and the electrlysis are two different reactions. The sole
>> function of the ion in the bath is to conduct electricity, which in turn
>> exactly reverses what happens in the the creation of ferric
>> oxide -oxidation. Phosphoric acid dissolves the iron itself, which is why
>> its used to etch for other fininsh preps. Neither molasses nor evaporust
>> etch the iron. They work by chelation, a process very different from
>> both
>> electrlysis and acid etching. They both leave the iron one shade of
>> grey
>> short of bright. In fact, with a little wax varnish, this thin layer
>> makes a
>> pretty good finish. With a little 4/0 steel wool, the piece is bright.
>> My
>> guess is that both molasses and evaporust are only strong enough to grab
>> the iron atom away from the oxygen bond, they leave that last ferrous
>> oxide
>> molecule bonded however weakly to the elemental iron.
>>
>> Molasses is cheap easy and safe. You know the old saw about
>> "Faster-better-cheaper: pick any two". Molasses is cheaper than
>> Phosphoric
>> acid and better in respect of handling , safety etc. Evaporust is
>> faster
>> and better than molasses, and much better than phosphoric acid on safety
>> and
>> convenience. The stuff is completely non-toxic, non corrosive-explosive-
>> you name it. ALL IT DOES is eat rust. It does so by attacking the iron
>> in
>> the oxide bond and will not touch anything else, including elemental
>> iron.
>> Despite the recommendation to wear rubber gloves, it makes a pretty good
>> hand cleaner that seems to specialize in the hand dirt that my shop
>> produces. Better than any waterless or soap I have
>> tried. I have read the MSDS on it meticulously and can't find any reason
>> why skin contact is even a concern. I believe it contains a detergent
>> that
>> cuts through a certain amount of grease to let the chelating agent get to
>> the iron. You can even diospose of it in the sink: its bio degradeable.
>> In
>> fact detergent qualities seem to outlast its rust removal effectiveness,
>> and
>> I may keep the depleted product just for that purpose.
>>
>> I am giving a clinic soon at the Historical Society on rust removal from
>> blacksmith tools and forged items (part of the shop restoration process)
>> and
>> phosphoric acid will not be nvolved: only chelation, electrloysis, wire
>> brushing (hard and soft) and abrasives.
>>
>> I'll let you know how things progress
>>
>> Keziah
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust
>>
>>
>>> Keep us posted on the Evaporust please, I like the sound of it.
>>>
>>> Rather than using molasses why don't you use dilute phosphoric acid?
>>> Naval
>>> Jelly is about 30% with a jelling agent so it sticks but if you dilute
>>> it
>>> in water it makes a fine bath.
>>>
>>> I don't recommend buying lab grade phosphoric 99.97% like I did. It
>>> works
>>> great but is scary to handle. I'm used to handling this kind of thing
>>> but
>>> there's still a pucker factor involved with anything that reacts
>>> explosively with concrete, etc.
>>>
>>> A couple weeks ago I was looking for some Extend and found this. Klean
>>> Strip Phosphoric Prep & Etch. It isn't as pure as the lab grade acid so
>>> it
>>> isn't nearly as scary and works well. It's also a LOT cheaper than
>>> either
>>> the pure deal or Naval Jelly. $14/gl at Home Depot.
>>>
>>> http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=32&prodid=81
>>>
>>> My next thought is to use phosphoric as the electrolyte in the bath.
>>>
>>> Frosty
>>> -------------------------------
>>> If it ain't forged
>>> it ain't real.
>>> Wrought iron is.
>>> The FrostWorks
>>>
>>> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "Peter Hirst" <saltydog335 at aol.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>> By coincidence, my first Evaporust arrived today as well. My shop is
>>>> literally a stone's throw from salt water, and at times it seems as if
>>>> rust control is half of my shop maintenance effort. I keep a permanent
>>>> electrolytic setup that I can clip a piece into any time. Since I set
>>>> it
>>>> up 3 months ago it has been shut off for no more than a a day or two at
>>>> a
>>>> time. I am not sure yet, but I think the optimal rust removal regiime
>>>> is
>>>> gong to be first treatment in the electrlytic rig and finished with
>>>> Evaporust. Depends on how Evaporust works on black oxide. I also keep
>>>> a
>>>> tub of 9:1 molasses solution for low cost, long term treatment.
>>>> ANything
>>>> I don't need for two weeks goes in the molasses. Really small stuff
>>>> oges
>>>> right in the Evaporust. Everything else gets zapped for a few hours
>>>> then
>>>> finished in Evaporust. Evaporust is definitley on my short list of
>>>> products that I can endorse, and I ma thinking about bottling the stuff
>>>> and handing out smaples with every major purchase. I already do that
>>>> with my wax finish, and its a great promotion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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