[TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust

Wed Jun 25 00:51:04 EDT 2008

Frosty:  you answered your own question on the phosphoric acid. Nasty stuff 
in any strength.  Not sure it would work in electrolyte bath.  The 
electrolysis tends to redeposit the iron back onto itself, while the 
phosphoric acid tends to dissolve the elemental iron.  The chemical action 
of the acid and the electrlysis are two different reactions.  The sole 
function of the ion in the bath is to conduct electricity, which in turn 
exactly reverses what happens in the the creation of ferric 
oxide -oxidation. Phosphoric acid dissolves the iron itself, which is why 
its used to etch for other fininsh preps.  Neither molasses nor evaporust 
etch the iron.  They work by chelation, a process very different from both 
electrlysis and acid etching.    They both leave the iron one shade of grey 
short of bright. In fact, with a little wax varnish, this thin layer makes a 
pretty good finish. With a little 4/0 steel wool, the piece is bright.  My 
guess is that both molasses and evaporust are  only strong enough to grab 
the iron atom away from the oxygen bond, they leave that last ferrous oxide 
molecule bonded however weakly to the elemental iron.

Molasses is cheap easy and safe. You know the old saw about 
"Faster-better-cheaper: pick any two".  Molasses is cheaper than Phosphoric 
acid and better in respect of  handling , safety etc.   Evaporust is faster 
and better than molasses, and much better than phosphoric acid on safety and 
convenience.  The stuff is completely non-toxic, non corrosive-explosive- 
you name it.  ALL IT DOES is eat rust.  It does so by attacking the iron in 
the oxide bond and will not touch anything else, including elemental iron. 
Despite the recommendation to wear rubber gloves,  it makes a pretty good 
hand cleaner that seems to specialize in the hand dirt that my shop 
produces.  Better than any waterless or soap I have
tried.  I have read the MSDS on it meticulously and can't find any reason 
why skin contact is even a concern.  I believe it contains a detergent that 
cuts through a certain amount of grease to let the chelating agent get to 
the iron. You can even diospose of it in the sink: its bio degradeable.  In 
fact detergent qualities seem to outlast its rust removal effectiveness, and 
I may keep the depleted product just for that purpose.

I am giving a clinic soon at the Historical Society on rust removal from 
blacksmith tools and forged items (part of the shop restoration process) and 
phosphoric acid will not be nvolved:  only chelation, electrloysis, wire 
brushing (hard and soft) and abrasives.

I'll let you know how things progress

Keziah

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] coal or charcoal morph to Evaporust

> Keep us posted on the Evaporust please, I like the sound of it.
>
> Rather than using molasses why don't you use dilute phosphoric acid? Naval 
> Jelly is about 30% with a jelling agent so it sticks but if you dilute it 
> in water it makes a fine bath.
>
> I don't recommend buying lab grade phosphoric 99.97% like I did. It works 
> great but is scary to handle. I'm used to handling this kind of thing but 
> there's still a pucker factor involved with anything that reacts 
> explosively with concrete, etc.
>
> A couple weeks ago I was looking for some Extend and found this. Klean 
> Strip Phosphoric Prep & Etch. It isn't as pure as the lab grade acid so it 
> isn't nearly as scary and works well. It's also a LOT cheaper than either 
> the pure deal or Naval Jelly. $14/gl at Home Depot.
>
> http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=32&prodid=81
>
> My next thought is to use phosphoric as the electrolyte in the bath.
>
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>
>
> From: "Peter Hirst" <saltydog335 at aol.com>
>
>
>> By coincidence, my first Evaporust arrived today as well.  My shop is 
>> literally a stone's throw from salt water, and at times it seems as if 
>> rust control is half of my shop maintenance effort. I keep a permanent 
>> electrolytic setup that I can clip a piece into any time.  Since I set it 
>> up 3 months ago it has been shut off for no more than a a day or two at a 
>> time. I am not sure yet, but I think the optimal rust removal regiime is 
>> gong to be first treatment in the electrlytic rig and finished with 
>> Evaporust. Depends on how  Evaporust works on black oxide.  I also keep a 
>> tub of 9:1 molasses solution for low cost, long term treatment.  ANything 
>> I don't need for two weeks goes in the molasses.  Really small stuff oges 
>> right in the Evaporust.  Everything else gets zapped for a few hours then 
>> finished in Evaporust.  Evaporust is definitley on my short list of 
>> products that I can endorse, and I ma thinking about bottling the stuff 
>> and handing out smaples with every major purchase.  I already do that 
>> with my wax finish, and its a great promotion.
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password:  anvil
> ___________
>
>
> 