[TheForge] Abana conference

Mon Mar 5 10:26:58 EST 2007

Heck I'd love to help shoot & produce demo videos!
(even a fraction that compensation would suit me fine :)

One thing budding and amateur videographers should
know about is counterweighting the camera for added stability,
try this google search to see what others have done:
http://www.google.com/search?q=diy%20steadycam&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I suspect that blacksmiths have an upper hand here, since they
have plenty of weighty metal around -- just attach some weight to
a handle, that has a small platform & camera mount...

-ben

On 3/4/07, Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
> In my abana video dream, the camera zooms in on each jig and does
> a 360* around it. A fellow BSer would do the shooting and
> editing. Give'em a free conf and 20 virgins to do it....pf
>
> Chuck Robinson wrote:
> > Hey Steve,
> >
> > If you re-read my e-mail, you will see in paragraph  5, that I did
> > address the high cost issue for membership in ABANA.
> >
> > Demonstrators at conferences are not professional actors reading from a
> > script.
> > They tend to wander around, while looking for tools or responding to
> > questions from the audience.
> > When I attend a conference like the Batson Blade Smithing Symposium.  I
> > have found it is much more effective to place my video camera on a stand
> > and record the whole demonstration, rather than try to take notes and
> > watch the demo at the same time.
> >  It doesn't bother me if he/she wanders out of camera range as long as I
> > can hear what the demonstrator is still talking about.
> > The major cost in time and effort in producing videos is the editing.  I
> > think the editing should be kept to the absolute minimum.  An example of
> > what I'm talking about is Rodger's tape number 102 of Ralph Sproul's
> > demonstration.  For the first 20 minutes of his demo Ralph wanders
> > around pulling out jigs and talking about tooling that he's developed.
> > Ideas that are worth their weight in gold, but could easily have been
> > edited out.
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Smith" <sos at alum.mit.edu>
> > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Abana conference
> >
> >
> >> Chuck, I don't see the equipment being the issue. You have to have
> >> people who are willing to run the equipment and people to edit the
> >> tape into something useful. To make a good video of a demo, I think
> >> you need two cameras and tripods, two people on those cameras, an
> >> extra person capable of setting up the sound and running errands. If
> >> instead you duct tape a camera to a spare anvil, what you'll end up
> >> with is a video that nobody watches. Just my opinion. For an example
> >> of the best conference videos I've ever seen, get one from Rocky
> >> Mountain Smiths. The budget won't break (much), but finding the
> >> volunteers is tough.
> >>
> >> Roger's videos are decent, I have a stack of them. For all I know, he
> >> just duct tapes his camera down, contrary to what I say above. He
> >> clearly knows what he's doing, however, and is only working on one
> >> demonstrator with one angle of view.
> >>
> >> I agree that conferences are too expensive for most people. Good
> >> videos would help spread the word.
> >>
> >> I don't mean to be picking your comments apart, Chuck, but I've got
> >> one more thing to point out. You say: "They tell me that ABANA has no
> >> relevance for them as far as blacksmithing is concerned." I notice
> >> this doesn't say anything about too expensive, rather that the
> >> offering isn't of interest.
> >>
> >> Something's out of whack, but I'm not sure what it is. I think the AR
> >> and HB are great publications, with AR admittedly getting a bit weird
> >> and off center at times. I'd love to see ABANA continue to put on
> >> conferences in some altered form to make them more useful/accessible
> >> to the membership.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> Chuck Robinson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hey Ries,
> >>>
> >>> My suggestion for video recording the regional conferences should be
> >>> possible without breaking the ABANA Budget.
> >>> I believe that several years after recording as many conferences as
> >>> possible, they would be a revenue you making activity for ABANA.
> >>>
> >>> The basic problem that I see is that the present way of holding large
> >>> expensive conferences isn't working anymore. The  fact that only
> >>> about 10% of our ABANA membership are willing or able to attend means
> >>> that 90% of our membership don't support or receive any benefit from
> >>> the conferences.
> >>>
> >>> I am the ABANA affiliate liaison on the Gulf coast blacksmith's
> >>> Association. The GCBA  has 125 members, of which including myself,
> >>> only three are members of ABANA. One of these ABANA members does not
> >>> plan to renew his membership.
> >>>
> >>> When I question my members  as to why they don't want to be ABANA
> >>> members. They tell me that ABANA has no relevance for them as far as
> >>> blacksmithing is concerned.
> >>>
> >>> ABANA membership is too expensive for the benefits they receive from
> >>> it. Most of The articles in the Anvils Ring show projects that are
> >>> well beyond their capabilities to make.
> >>>
> >>> I first joined ABANA in 1973.  The earlier newsletters  weren't
> >>> nearly as polished as the current ones are, but they presented a lot
> >>> of useful information and tips that the average blacksmith would be
> >>> interested in.
> >>>
> >>> The conferences are generally, too far away and way too expensive for
> >>> them to attend.  So they basically get zero benefit from the ABANA
> >>> conferences.
> >>> Our library however, has most of Roger's Conference Videos, and they
> >>> are very popular with our members.
> >>> Chuck
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ries" <ries at riesniemi.com>
> >>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:00 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Abana conference
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mar 1, 2007, at 8:52 AM, Chuck Robinson wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like to make any alternate proposal to having a 2008 ABANA
> >>>> conference.
> >>>>
> >>>> Since the last few ABANA conferences have been extremely expensive,
> >>>> and under attended by the it's members,  I would suggest ABANA use
> >>>> some of the funds it intended to use for the next conference, to
> >>>> instead purchase high-quality video making equipment.
> >>>> It would be used to make DVDs of the regional conferences put on by
> >>>> affiliate groups throughout the country. It might also be possible
> >>>> to send several people to international blacksmith and conferences
> >>>> to record them .
> >>>> I have been extremely impressed with the  wonderful job that Roger
> >>>> Degner of the Upper Midwest Blacksmith's Association has done in
> >>>> recording the conferences that he has attended and produced DVDs of,
> >>>> that have valuable instructional material in them.  They are
> >>>> available to individuals for a very nominal cost.
> >>>> Granted the videos aren't the same as being there, but they are
> >>>> orders of magnitude better than missing the Demos, when you can't
> >>>> attend in person.
> >>>> I would strongly suggest that ABANA contact Rodger for advice on
> >>>> how  he does it.
> >>>> Chuck
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Chuck- the whole problem is they dont have the seed money- the
> >>>> general idea of how it usually works is that the conference makes a
> >>>> slight profit- say 50 grand or so- then that gets used for
> >>>> deposits,  startup costs, and so on for the next one.
> >>>> The conference itself is supposed to be self supporting- the fees
> >>>> coming in pay for the expenses going out.
> >>>> But this time, Seattle didnt make any money- in fact, it probably
> >>>> lost money.
> >>>> So there is no pot of money to buy video equipment.
> >>>> Roger does indeed work closely with Abana, and he does great things.
> >>>> Long term, it would be great if Abana helped Roger more, and Roger
> >>>> made more Abana videos available- in addition to the ones from abana
> >>>> conferences he already has.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ries Niemi
> >>>> Industrial Artist
> >>>> http://www.riesniemi.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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