[TheForge] Abana conference

Mon Mar 5 18:13:23 EST 2007

Umm, I thought I was agreeing with your paragraph 5..

By editing, I don't mean editing out the good parts you describe.
I mean cutting out breaks, switching to the close-up anvil camera for 
that detailed decoration, etc.

Steve

Chuck Robinson wrote:

> Hey Steve,
> 
> If you re-read my e-mail, you will see in paragraph  5, that I did 
> address the high cost issue for membership in ABANA.
> 
> Demonstrators at conferences are not professional actors reading from a 
> script.
> They tend to wander around, while looking for tools or responding to 
> questions from the audience.
> When I attend a conference like the Batson Blade Smithing Symposium.  I 
> have found it is much more effective to place my video camera on a stand 
> and record the whole demonstration, rather than try to take notes and 
> watch the demo at the same time.
>  It doesn't bother me if he/she wanders out of camera range as long as I 
> can hear what the demonstrator is still talking about.
> The major cost in time and effort in producing videos is the editing.  I 
> think the editing should be kept to the absolute minimum.  An example of 
> what I'm talking about is Rodger's tape number 102 of Ralph Sproul's 
> demonstration.  For the first 20 minutes of his demo Ralph wanders 
> around pulling out jigs and talking about tooling that he's developed.  
> Ideas that are worth their weight in gold, but could easily have been 
> edited out.
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Smith" <sos at alum.mit.edu>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Abana conference
> 
> 
>> Chuck, I don't see the equipment being the issue. You have to have 
>> people who are willing to run the equipment and people to edit the 
>> tape into something useful. To make a good video of a demo, I think 
>> you need two cameras and tripods, two people on those cameras, an 
>> extra person capable of setting up the sound and running errands. If 
>> instead you duct tape a camera to a spare anvil, what you'll end up 
>> with is a video that nobody watches. Just my opinion. For an example 
>> of the best conference videos I've ever seen, get one from Rocky 
>> Mountain Smiths. The budget won't break (much), but finding the 
>> volunteers is tough.
>>
>> Roger's videos are decent, I have a stack of them. For all I know, he 
>> just duct tapes his camera down, contrary to what I say above. He 
>> clearly knows what he's doing, however, and is only working on one 
>> demonstrator with one angle of view.
>>
>> I agree that conferences are too expensive for most people. Good 
>> videos would help spread the word.
>>
>> I don't mean to be picking your comments apart, Chuck, but I've got 
>> one more thing to point out. You say: "They tell me that ABANA has no 
>> relevance for them as far as blacksmithing is concerned." I notice 
>> this doesn't say anything about too expensive, rather that the 
>> offering isn't of interest.
>>
>> Something's out of whack, but I'm not sure what it is. I think the AR 
>> and HB are great publications, with AR admittedly getting a bit weird 
>> and off center at times. I'd love to see ABANA continue to put on 
>> conferences in some altered form to make them more useful/accessible 
>> to the membership.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> Chuck Robinson wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Ries,
>>>
>>> My suggestion for video recording the regional conferences should be 
>>> possible without breaking the ABANA Budget.
>>> I believe that several years after recording as many conferences as 
>>> possible, they would be a revenue you making activity for ABANA.
>>>
>>> The basic problem that I see is that the present way of holding large 
>>> expensive conferences isn't working anymore. The  fact that only 
>>> about 10% of our ABANA membership are willing or able to attend means 
>>> that 90% of our membership don't support or receive any benefit from 
>>> the conferences.
>>>
>>> I am the ABANA affiliate liaison on the Gulf coast blacksmith's 
>>> Association. The GCBA  has 125 members, of which including myself, 
>>> only three are members of ABANA. One of these ABANA members does not 
>>> plan to renew his membership.
>>>
>>> When I question my members  as to why they don't want to be ABANA 
>>> members. They tell me that ABANA has no relevance for them as far as 
>>> blacksmithing is concerned.
>>>
>>> ABANA membership is too expensive for the benefits they receive from 
>>> it. Most of The articles in the Anvils Ring show projects that are 
>>> well beyond their capabilities to make.
>>>
>>> I first joined ABANA in 1973.  The earlier newsletters  weren't 
>>> nearly as polished as the current ones are, but they presented a lot 
>>> of useful information and tips that the average blacksmith would be 
>>> interested in.
>>>
>>> The conferences are generally, too far away and way too expensive for 
>>> them to attend.  So they basically get zero benefit from the ABANA 
>>> conferences.
>>> Our library however, has most of Roger's Conference Videos, and they 
>>> are very popular with our members.
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ries" <ries at riesniemi.com>
>>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:00 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Abana conference
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 1, 2007, at 8:52 AM, Chuck Robinson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would like to make any alternate proposal to having a 2008 ABANA 
>>>> conference.
>>>>
>>>> Since the last few ABANA conferences have been extremely expensive,  
>>>> and under attended by the it's members,  I would suggest ABANA use  
>>>> some of the funds it intended to use for the next conference, to  
>>>> instead purchase high-quality video making equipment.
>>>> It would be used to make DVDs of the regional conferences put on by 
>>>> affiliate groups throughout the country. It might also be possible 
>>>> to send several people to international blacksmith and conferences 
>>>> to record them .
>>>> I have been extremely impressed with the  wonderful job that Roger 
>>>> Degner of the Upper Midwest Blacksmith's Association has done in 
>>>> recording the conferences that he has attended and produced DVDs of, 
>>>> that have valuable instructional material in them.  They are  
>>>> available to individuals for a very nominal cost.
>>>> Granted the videos aren't the same as being there, but they are  
>>>> orders of magnitude better than missing the Demos, when you can't  
>>>> attend in person.
>>>> I would strongly suggest that ABANA contact Rodger for advice on 
>>>> how  he does it.
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chuck- the whole problem is they dont have the seed money- the  
>>>> general idea of how it usually works is that the conference makes a  
>>>> slight profit- say 50 grand or so- then that gets used for 
>>>> deposits,  startup costs, and so on for the next one.
>>>> The conference itself is supposed to be self supporting- the fees 
>>>> coming in pay for the expenses going out.
>>>> But this time, Seattle didnt make any money- in fact, it probably  
>>>> lost money.
>>>> So there is no pot of money to buy video equipment.
>>>> Roger does indeed work closely with Abana, and he does great things. 
>>>> Long term, it would be great if Abana helped Roger more, and Roger  
>>>> made more Abana videos available- in addition to the ones from abana 
>>>> conferences he already has.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ries Niemi
>>>> Industrial Artist
>>>> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>>>> theforge mail list group photo site is
>>>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>>>> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>>>> password:  anvil
>>>> ___________
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>>> theforge mail list group photo site is
>>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>>> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>>> password:  anvil
>>> ___________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> theforge mail list group photo site is
>> http://www.photoaccess.com
>> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> password:  anvil
>> ___________
>>
>> . 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password:  anvil
> ___________
> 
> 
> 