[TheForge] Brand Loyalty?

Tue Aug 22 17:26:56 EDT 2006

Elucidate, please.

My experience has been that in industrial tools, brand loyalty is still 
somewhat valuable.
For example, I have never had a problem with any of my Miller welders 
being less than satisfactory.
I was somewhat disappointed in my $2500 Miller Spectrum 500 Plasma 
cutter, which I bought in 1992- I feel that Miller is not as good a 
plasma cutter producer as they are a welding machine producer, and 
certainly not as good as Thermal Dynamics or Hypertherm- but I would 
have brand loyalty to either of these companies, as I trust anything 
with either name on it to be a quality machine.

Similarly, I trust inherently Starrett precision machinist tools, or 
Lenox blades, or Peddinghaus anything, from a hammer to a half million 
dollar beam drilling and shear line. I trust BPR, which is an Italian 
company that I own a set of power angle rolls from- I have toured their 
factory, and would trust any of their products. All the Emglo 
compressors I have ever seen were a good buy. Never seen a bad product 
from Klein tools. Jancy, Scotchman, Ellis, and Hardinge are all 
goodun's as well.
Off Center Tool- Grant can be trusted to make the highest quality stuff.
In fact, I could easily come up with a list of 50 or so industrial 
suppliers of tooling, machines, and equipment that I can recommend 
without reservation
- with one caveat-
and that is that many of them, including Starrett, have a new, low 
priced, made in China, teaser line of products, which I would avoid.

In any purchase, particularly one involving serious simoleans, research 
is a must- and I would not recommend blind purchasing based solely on 
name. But there are still plenty of very upstanding companies that you 
can trust- in the industrial field.

Consumer goods, and consumer electronics, well thats another thing 
altogether. Although I must say I have never had a lemon from Apple 
Computer.

ries
On Aug 22, 2006, at 11:37 AM, Michael wrote:

> One of the more interesting aspects of tooling discussions is the 
> light they
> shine on the importance of correct philosophy. In other words, what 
> works
> and what wrecks; this is philosophy's bottom line after all. I believe 
> that
> customer loyalty actually constitutes a problem for manufacturers, as 
> it
> only provides a temptation these days--not a reason to behave 
> responsibly.
> We understand that reckless abandon in trying to save money leads to 
> poor
> tool choices, but how many of us stop to consider that brand loyalty 
> is now
> every bit as inappropriate?
> Mikey
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Smith
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:13 AM
> To: artgawk at thegrid.net; Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Induction Forge?
>
> Yes, this sort of thing only helps the bottom line in the short term.
>
> Steve
>
> Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>
>>  Steve;
>> I've got to think that Lincoln isn't the company it used to be and
>> corporate short term thinking has screwed it too.
>> Kinda hard on a customer's loyalty...Pete F
>>
>> Steve Smith wrote:
>>
>>> Pete, I don't understand how Lincoln can get away with that. Bad
>>> craziness on their part.
>>>
>>> Chips are pretty cheap to stockpile (for a manufacturer, I mean).
>>> Running out/unavailable isn't a valid excuse, it is poor planning.
>>>
>>> My two cents.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Reis is right of course..i was just pipe dreaming again.
>>>> In fact, i have a sort of horror of buying any welding machine with
>>>> modern electronics in it. Little teeny, fragile chips and big 
>>>> surging
>>>> and sputtering electro-magnetic fields...what a combination!
>>>> How are we gonna get replacement chips for them when they are 20
>>>> years old?
>>>> The main PC card for my Lincoln Idealarc 250/250 is no longer
>>>> available. It's my newest welding machine.The chips for many 
>>>> vehicles
>>>> are no longer available. Look under the hood of so many machines and
>>>> all there is to be seen is electronics and plastic.
>>>> Looks like the prelude to a disaster.
>>>> Another one.
>>>> Course when it happens, we'll be well positioned.
>>>> Only a few chips in my anvil.....Pete F
>>>>
>>>> Jerry Frost wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Egglayingwoolmilkpig? I don't even want a picture! <grin> Great 
>>>>> term.
>>>>>
>>>>> We're on the same page regarding doitall machines. Something that
>>>>> does everything does nothing well.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I don't know much about electricity I do understand there are
>>>>> different types in ways I don't grasp. What I do know is I already
>>>>> have a Lincoln Ranger 9, multi process welder that will indeed do
>>>>> most welding processes but requires modules or additional pieces to
>>>>> do some.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was just thinking an electricity massaging unit might be an
>>>>> alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Frosty
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> If it ain't forged
>>>>> it ain't real.
>>>>> Wrought iron is.
>>>>> The FrostWorks
>>>>>
>>>>> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.artmetalradio.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "Ries Niemi" <rniemi at fidalgo.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not a big fan of "all in one" designs for anything- the combo
>>>>>> brake/shear/rolls are garbage, the lathe/milling machines are 
>>>>>> crap,
>>>>>> the shopsmith is an amusing idea that does nothing well-
>>>>>> But the closest I come is my inverter welder- it will run a mig
>>>>>> wire feeder head, tig weld, or stick weld, all better than the
>>>>>> older, standalone machines I also have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, and its a big but- even though it all looks alike- there are
>>>>>> different types of electricity- and what you need for welding- my
>>>>>> tig inverter is usually putting out 170 amps at 25 volts or so- is
>>>>>> drastically different than what you would need for a induction
>>>>>> forge. Cant remember Grants explanation of the output, but its
>>>>>> night and day from what a tig welder puts out.
>>>>>> It would be kinda like saying my lawnmower and my Cat D9 are both
>>>>>> powered by internal combustion engines, so why not combine the
>>>>>> functions of the two?
>>>>>> Yes, it could probably be done- and it would do each job worse,
>>>>>> cost more, and have inherent design flaws that are just about
>>>>>> insurmountable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The germans have a word for this- they would call it an
>>>>>> "egglayingwoolmilkpig"-  something that tries to do everything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am all for buying an inverter power supply- but so far, the only
>>>>>> ones that both weld and plasma cut are funky no name chinese
>>>>>> imports- and they dont have either Grant Sarver, or Kaynes 
>>>>>> standing
>>>>>> behind them.
>>>>>> I will buy a no name chinese induction forge from Grant, but not
>>>>>> from some guy on ebay who cant tell an oscilloscope from a
>>>>>> stethescope.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My welders are either red or blue. They work, parts are available,
>>>>>> most are made in the USA- (all millers, most lincolns).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Experiments are fine for hor d'ourves- not for welders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ries
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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Ries Niemi
Industrial Artist

http://www.RiesNiemi.com