[TheForge] disintegrating welding rod

David E. Smucker davesmucker at hotmail.com
Sat Dec 25 20:33:29 EST 2004 

Justin,  I not aware of Susan's methods written up anywhere -- but I may be 
able to find my notes.  This would make a good newsletter article -- I will 
see what I can do.

Dave Smucker, Editor AACB Newsletter.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Justin Fellenz" <sunironworks at yahoo.com>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 5:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod


> This sounds like a really interesting technique. Do you know if she's
> documented it anywhere?
>
> Justin.
>
> --- "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The use of the TIG to tack weld -- and then flux and forge weld can
>> in deed
>> work very well.  I have seen Susan Hutchinson  do very small forge
>> welds by
>> using a small "rivet" make from small dia wire to hold two part in
>> position
>> to make the forge weld.  She then heats and fluxes the parts and
>> makes the
>> weld.  For these very small welds she use a small piece of railroad
>> rail as
>> the anvil and puts it right on the forge so the distance from fire to
>> anvil
>> is very short.  She even preheats the anvil on the side of her forge
>> fire.
>> Really neat to see her work and I would find it hard to believe you
>> could
>> make this small of forge weld if I hadn't see it.
>>
>> Dave
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Darrell" <darrell at machinemaster.com>
>> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 7:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
>>
>>
>> > The other option is to treat the TIG weld as a tack and flux and
>> forge
>> > weld
>> > the part.
>> > Darrell
>> >
>> > http://www.machinemaster.com
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com>
>> > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:16 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
>> >
>> >
>> >> I don't think so Bruce.  Welding rod / wire it very tough in
>> almost all
>> >> cases -- alloy content is controled so that it is not "hot short"
>> in my
>> >> terms.  I have used many tig welds in forging applications and
>> have never
>> >> had them fail.  I think this failure is most likely a lack of
>> >> penataration
>> >> with unwelded metal at the root.  This will cause problems just
>> like a
>> > cold
>> >> shunt.  A weld in this type of application needs to be a full
>> depth
>> >> groove
>> >> or V weld.  You want to go into the fire with 100 percent metal --
>> not
>> >> something with a crack that will just grow under forging.
>> >>
>> >> Dave
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Bruce Freeman" <FREEMAB at pt.fdah.com>
>> >> To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:35 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Contribution from a non-weldor:
>> >> >
>> >> > Is it possible that a weld bead could be red-short?  Electric
>> welding
>> >> > is a melting operation, so it's not clear to me that red-short
>> wire or
>> >> > rod would be a disadvantage there.  Clearly, such a material
>> would fall
>> >> > apart when forged, however.
>> >> >
>> >> > Bruce
>> >> > NJ
>> >> >
>> >> >>>> sunironworks at yahoo.com 12/23/2004 10:07:16 AM >>>
>> >> > Yeah, I thought so too. Could be I got some gunk in there or
>> like you
>> >> > say the different harndesses made a difference. And Ralph's
>> suggestion
>> >> > that the mechanical distortion caused by heating (especially on
>> a
>> >> > weldment that's of a different hardness or grain stucture than
>> the
>> >> > base) is a pausible addition. I'll play with different welds and
>> rods
>> >> > and see if i can learn something. I have to fix this problem on
>> this
>> >> > particular bar this morning, so I'll tig it up again--carefully,
>> with
>> >> > good penetration and cleanliness--normalize and see what
>> happens.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks and happy holidays all,
>> >> >
>> >> > JRF
>> >> > --- Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> In theory, TIG welds should be the least susceptable to that
>> >> > problem.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I've found that running the weldment through a normalizing
>> cycle
>> >> >> first
>> >> >> helps...PF
>> >> >>
>> >> >> TodEstesRN at aol.com wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >In a message dated 12/21/2004 6:29:52 PM Central Standard
>> Time,
>> >> >> >xlch58 at swbell.net writes:
>> >> >> >Justin Fellenz wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>All,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>I've been finding that electric welds, especially tig,
>> >> > disintegrate
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> >>the forge. Last session I cheated and tigged a couple of
>> pieces of
>> >> >> bar
>> >> >> >>together rather than forge-weldng them. I used a general
>> purpose
>> >> >> mild
>> >> >> >>steel gas welding rod (probably RG-45, copper coated) and 2
>> 1/2"
>> >> >> round
>> >> >> >>bars of 1018 or 1020, or, my supplier said, maybe a38. I
>> cleaned
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>rods up with a flap wheel, beveled the edges, and burnt em
>> >> >> together.
>> >> >> >>Looked like good penetration,a little sparking from junk on
>> the
>> >> >> metal
>> >> >> >>but not too bad. But when I heated it up and beat on it with
>> a
>> >> >> hammer,
>> >> >> >>the filler just sort of diappeared leaving gaps between the
>> bar
>> >> >> ends.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Maybe I didnt get it all the way clean and carbon or scale
>> >> > deposits
>> >> >> or
>> >> >> >>whatever heated up and blew the filler or the HAZ metal out.
>> My
>> >> >> best
>> >> >> >>guess. Anyone else experience this? I find that mig welds
>> hold up
>> >> >> ok as
>> >> >> >>long as the penetration's really good, but where it's not it
>> looks
>> >> >> like
>> >> >> >>the HAZ again just kind of powders and the bead pulls away
>> from
>> >> > the
>> >> >> >>bar.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Thoughts?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>Cheers,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>JRF
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >Don't know why that happened but have had good luck Oxy/Acy
>> gas
>> >> >> welding then
>> >> >> >forging.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Time enough for sleep in the grave.
>> >> >> >Tod Estes
>> >> >> >_______________________________________________
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>> >> >> >___________
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >> ___________
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >> >
>> >> >
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>> >> ___________
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>> >>
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>> > password:  anvil
>> > ___________
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>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
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>> theforge mail list group photo site is
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>> ___________
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>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
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>

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