[TheForge] disintegrating welding rod

Fri Dec 24 05:39:06 EST 2004

This sounds like a really interesting technique. Do you know if she's
documented it anywhere?

Justin.

--- "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com> wrote:

> The use of the TIG to tack weld -- and then flux and forge weld can
> in deed 
> work very well.  I have seen Susan Hutchinson  do very small forge
> welds by 
> using a small "rivet" make from small dia wire to hold two part in
> position 
> to make the forge weld.  She then heats and fluxes the parts and
> makes the 
> weld.  For these very small welds she use a small piece of railroad
> rail as 
> the anvil and puts it right on the forge so the distance from fire to
> anvil 
> is very short.  She even preheats the anvil on the side of her forge
> fire. 
> Really neat to see her work and I would find it hard to believe you
> could 
> make this small of forge weld if I hadn't see it.
> 
> Dave
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Darrell" <darrell at machinemaster.com>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 7:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
> 
> 
> > The other option is to treat the TIG weld as a tack and flux and
> forge 
> > weld
> > the part.
> > Darrell
> >
> > http://www.machinemaster.com
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com>
> > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
> >
> >
> >> I don't think so Bruce.  Welding rod / wire it very tough in
> almost all
> >> cases -- alloy content is controled so that it is not "hot short"
> in my
> >> terms.  I have used many tig welds in forging applications and
> have never
> >> had them fail.  I think this failure is most likely a lack of 
> >> penataration
> >> with unwelded metal at the root.  This will cause problems just
> like a
> > cold
> >> shunt.  A weld in this type of application needs to be a full
> depth 
> >> groove
> >> or V weld.  You want to go into the fire with 100 percent metal --
> not
> >> something with a crack that will just grow under forging.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Bruce Freeman" <FREEMAB at pt.fdah.com>
> >> To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:35 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
> >>
> >>
> >> > Contribution from a non-weldor:
> >> >
> >> > Is it possible that a weld bead could be red-short?  Electric
> welding
> >> > is a melting operation, so it's not clear to me that red-short
> wire or
> >> > rod would be a disadvantage there.  Clearly, such a material
> would fall
> >> > apart when forged, however.
> >> >
> >> > Bruce
> >> > NJ
> >> >
> >> >>>> sunironworks at yahoo.com 12/23/2004 10:07:16 AM >>>
> >> > Yeah, I thought so too. Could be I got some gunk in there or
> like you
> >> > say the different harndesses made a difference. And Ralph's
> suggestion
> >> > that the mechanical distortion caused by heating (especially on
> a
> >> > weldment that's of a different hardness or grain stucture than
> the
> >> > base) is a pausible addition. I'll play with different welds and
> rods
> >> > and see if i can learn something. I have to fix this problem on
> this
> >> > particular bar this morning, so I'll tig it up again--carefully,
> with
> >> > good penetration and cleanliness--normalize and see what
> happens.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks and happy holidays all,
> >> >
> >> > JRF
> >> > --- Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In theory, TIG welds should be the least susceptable to that
> >> > problem.
> >> >>
> >> >> I've found that running the weldment through a normalizing
> cycle
> >> >> first
> >> >> helps...PF
> >> >>
> >> >> TodEstesRN at aol.com wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >In a message dated 12/21/2004 6:29:52 PM Central Standard
> Time,
> >> >> >xlch58 at swbell.net writes:
> >> >> >Justin Fellenz wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>All,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>I've been finding that electric welds, especially tig,
> >> > disintegrate
> >> >> in
> >> >> >>the forge. Last session I cheated and tigged a couple of
> pieces of
> >> >> bar
> >> >> >>together rather than forge-weldng them. I used a general
> purpose
> >> >> mild
> >> >> >>steel gas welding rod (probably RG-45, copper coated) and 2
> 1/2"
> >> >> round
> >> >> >>bars of 1018 or 1020, or, my supplier said, maybe a38. I
> cleaned
> >> >> the
> >> >> >>rods up with a flap wheel, beveled the edges, and burnt em
> >> >> together.
> >> >> >>Looked like good penetration,a little sparking from junk on
> the
> >> >> metal
> >> >> >>but not too bad. But when I heated it up and beat on it with
> a
> >> >> hammer,
> >> >> >>the filler just sort of diappeared leaving gaps between the
> bar
> >> >> ends.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Maybe I didnt get it all the way clean and carbon or scale
> >> > deposits
> >> >> or
> >> >> >>whatever heated up and blew the filler or the HAZ metal out.
> My
> >> >> best
> >> >> >>guess. Anyone else experience this? I find that mig welds
> hold up
> >> >> ok as
> >> >> >>long as the penetration's really good, but where it's not it
> looks
> >> >> like
> >> >> >>the HAZ again just kind of powders and the bead pulls away
> from
> >> > the
> >> >> >>bar.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Thoughts?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Cheers,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>JRF
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >Don't know why that happened but have had good luck Oxy/Acy
> gas
> >> >> welding then
> >> >> >forging.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Time enough for sleep in the grave.
> >> >> >Tod Estes
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> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
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> 