[TheForge] disintegrating welding rod

Mon Dec 27 08:37:04 EST 2004

Thanks, David. 

Justin.

--- "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Justin,  I not aware of Susan's methods written up anywhere -- but I
> may be 
> able to find my notes.  This would make a good newsletter article --
> I will 
> see what I can do.
> 
> Dave Smucker, Editor AACB Newsletter.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Justin Fellenz" <sunironworks at yahoo.com>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 5:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
> 
> 
> > This sounds like a really interesting technique. Do you know if
> she's
> > documented it anywhere?
> >
> > Justin.
> >
> > --- "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The use of the TIG to tack weld -- and then flux and forge weld
> can
> >> in deed
> >> work very well.  I have seen Susan Hutchinson  do very small forge
> >> welds by
> >> using a small "rivet" make from small dia wire to hold two part in
> >> position
> >> to make the forge weld.  She then heats and fluxes the parts and
> >> makes the
> >> weld.  For these very small welds she use a small piece of
> railroad
> >> rail as
> >> the anvil and puts it right on the forge so the distance from fire
> to
> >> anvil
> >> is very short.  She even preheats the anvil on the side of her
> forge
> >> fire.
> >> Really neat to see her work and I would find it hard to believe
> you
> >> could
> >> make this small of forge weld if I hadn't see it.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Darrell" <darrell at machinemaster.com>
> >> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 7:09 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
> >>
> >>
> >> > The other option is to treat the TIG weld as a tack and flux and
> >> forge
> >> > weld
> >> > the part.
> >> > Darrell
> >> >
> >> > http://www.machinemaster.com
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com>
> >> > To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> >> > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 2:16 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I don't think so Bruce.  Welding rod / wire it very tough in
> >> almost all
> >> >> cases -- alloy content is controled so that it is not "hot
> short"
> >> in my
> >> >> terms.  I have used many tig welds in forging applications and
> >> have never
> >> >> had them fail.  I think this failure is most likely a lack of
> >> >> penataration
> >> >> with unwelded metal at the root.  This will cause problems just
> >> like a
> >> > cold
> >> >> shunt.  A weld in this type of application needs to be a full
> >> depth
> >> >> groove
> >> >> or V weld.  You want to go into the fire with 100 percent metal
> --
> >> not
> >> >> something with a crack that will just grow under forging.
> >> >>
> >> >> Dave
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> From: "Bruce Freeman" <FREEMAB at pt.fdah.com>
> >> >> To: <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:35 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [TheForge] disintegrating welding rod
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Contribution from a non-weldor:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Is it possible that a weld bead could be red-short?  Electric
> >> welding
> >> >> > is a melting operation, so it's not clear to me that
> red-short
> >> wire or
> >> >> > rod would be a disadvantage there.  Clearly, such a material
> >> would fall
> >> >> > apart when forged, however.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Bruce
> >> >> > NJ
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>>> sunironworks at yahoo.com 12/23/2004 10:07:16 AM >>>
> >> >> > Yeah, I thought so too. Could be I got some gunk in there or
> >> like you
> >> >> > say the different harndesses made a difference. And Ralph's
> >> suggestion
> >> >> > that the mechanical distortion caused by heating (especially
> on
> >> a
> >> >> > weldment that's of a different hardness or grain stucture
> than
> >> the
> >> >> > base) is a pausible addition. I'll play with different welds
> and
> >> rods
> >> >> > and see if i can learn something. I have to fix this problem
> on
> >> this
> >> >> > particular bar this morning, so I'll tig it up
> again--carefully,
> >> with
> >> >> > good penetration and cleanliness--normalize and see what
> >> happens.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks and happy holidays all,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > JRF
> >> >> > --- Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> In theory, TIG welds should be the least susceptable to that
> >> >> > problem.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I've found that running the weldment through a normalizing
> >> cycle
> >> >> >> first
> >> >> >> helps...PF
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> TodEstesRN at aol.com wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >In a message dated 12/21/2004 6:29:52 PM Central Standard
> >> Time,
> >> >> >> >xlch58 at swbell.net writes:
> >> >> >> >Justin Fellenz wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>All,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>I've been finding that electric welds, especially tig,
> >> >> > disintegrate
> >> >> >> in
> >> >> >> >>the forge. Last session I cheated and tigged a couple of
> >> pieces of
> >> >> >> bar
> >> >> >> >>together rather than forge-weldng them. I used a general
> >> purpose
> >> >> >> mild
> >> >> >> >>steel gas welding rod (probably RG-45, copper coated) and
> 2
> >> 1/2"
> >> >> >> round
> >> >> >> >>bars of 1018 or 1020, or, my supplier said, maybe a38. I
> >> cleaned
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >>rods up with a flap wheel, beveled the edges, and burnt em
> >> >> >> together.
> >> >> >> >>Looked like good penetration,a little sparking from junk
> on
> >> the
> >> >> >> metal
> >> >> >> >>but not too bad. But when I heated it up and beat on it
> with
> >> a
> >> >> >> hammer,
> >> >> >> >>the filler just sort of diappeared leaving gaps between
> the
> >> bar
> >> >> >> ends.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>Maybe I didnt get it all the way clean and carbon or scale
> >> >> > deposits
> >> >> >> or
> >> >> >> >>whatever heated up and blew the filler or the HAZ metal
> out.
> >> My
> >> >> >> best
> >> >> >> >>guess. Anyone else experience this? I find that mig welds
> >> hold up
> >> >> >> ok as
> >> >> >> >>long as the penetration's really good, but where it's not
> it
> >> looks
> >> >> >> like
> >> >> >> >>the HAZ again just kind of powders and the bead pulls away
> >> from
> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >>bar.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>Thoughts?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>Cheers,
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>JRF
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Don't know why that happened but have had good luck Oxy/Acy
> >> gas
> >> >> >> welding then
> >> >> >> >forging.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Time enough for sleep in the grave.
> >> >> >> >Tod Estes
> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >> >> >Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> >> >> >> >http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> >> >> >> >theforge mail list group photo site is
> >> >> >> >http://www.photoaccess.com
> >> >> >> >Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> >> >> >> >password:  anvil
> >> >> >> >___________
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> >> >> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> >> >> >> theforge mail list group photo site is
> >> >> >> http://www.photoaccess.com
> >> >> >> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> >> >> >> password:  anvil
> >> >> >> ___________
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> >> >> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> >> >> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> >> >> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> >> >> > Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> >> >> > password:  anvil
> >> >> > ___________
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> >> >> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> >> >> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> >> >> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> >> >> > Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> >> >> > password:  anvil
> >> >> > ___________
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> >> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> >> >> theforge mail list group photo site is
> >> >> http://www.photoaccess.com
> >> >> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> >> >> password:  anvil
> >> >> ___________
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> >> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> >> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> >> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> >> > Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> >> > password:  anvil
> >> > ___________
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> >> theforge mail list group photo site is
> >> http://www.photoaccess.com
> >> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> >> password:  anvil
> >> ___________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > password:  anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password:  anvil
> ___________
> 
> 
> 