[TheForge] Elections

[Dave Brown]

At 09:40 07/18/03 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi,
>I am curious about the decision to turn the abana election into a raffle.
>This would mean signed ballots which seems antithetical to the American 
>tradition of the secret ballot.

Well, it's not exactly a raffle.  There is no fee to enter (excluding a 
postage stamp for something you should do anyway) and if your selections 
win you don't get any direct personal gain other than satisfaction.  You 
and everyone else get only one entry, you can't buy more entries in order 
to increase your chances of winning or to influence the outcome of the 
election.  There's an enticement to vote, but it's not a raffle.

>I am also curious about the issue of state by state regulations regarding 
>such a raffle.
>Are international members of abana eligible?  If so, does this 
>'raffle'-election comport with the laws
>of the nations involved?

I can speak only from experience in WI, CT, and RI ....  If no money is 
required in exchange for an entry, then it is not a raffle.  Raffles are 
generally (but I guess not necessarily) defined as receiving a chance for 
something in exchange for money or  some other item in exchange.  A raffle 
license in WI, for example) would only be required if you were selling 
entries(i.e. chances or tickets) within the state.  Since the prize (the 
anvil) is an enticement and requires no $$$ risk on the part of 
participants, then WI law says it's not a raffle.  The same applies to CT 
and RI if things have not changed in the last 10 years.

Another factor is that chances to win are limited solely to 
membership.  The restriction on participation puts it in the realm of 50/50 
drawings that many clubs have at their regular meetings.  Since the entry 
is limited to members only, there is no risk to the population in general

>ABANA has gotten in trouble in the past with both state and federal 
>agencies from
>failure to comply with regulations.  ABANA has also had some close calls 
>for similar reasons.
>It would be unfortunate if this election-raffle takes us there again.

As far as my experience is concerned, albeit limited experience, there is 
no risk here since it's not a raffle.  I suppose that if someone wanted to 
make trouble for ABANA they could call it a raffle and try reporting it to 
some state's authority.  I'd be willing to wager (oops, is it illegal to 
say that?<grin>) a reasonable sum that it'd go nowhere in the end.  But 
someone just looking to cause trouble might get some satisfaction.


>George Dixon

Dave Brown
CPA, Auditor, General Accountant (now sometimes called a blacksmith)


  "Not always right, but never uncertain. --Heinlein "Glory Days"