[TheForge] Mastermyr - Fire Grid

Fri Jun 7 19:31:01 2002

Phlip,

Your comments were no suffering at all.  

A friend of mine gave me a good idea for WI stock to make one of these - 
Wagon Tires - Wide this bars just like you need.  

Bill

Phlip wrote:

>OK, now suffer mt comments ;-)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "April & Bill Clemens" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:26 PM
>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Mastermyr - Fire Grid
>
>
>>  The things I learned while making the fire grid.
>>
>>1.  TEST PIECES ARE OFTEN NEEDED and easier than working on the real
>>piece and ruining it when you plan doesn't work.  I made 3 corner test
>>pieces
>>
>
>Definitely. Unless the piece is dead simple, test pieces will give you an
>opportunity to figure out the best way to do smoething.
>
> 2. LISTEN TO OTHERS ADVISE - If I had I would probably have
>
>>only done one.  The first test piece I made was from Wrought Iron.
>>
>
>Listen to yourself, too- think things out.
>
> 3.  LEARNED / RELEARNED THE NEED TO WORK WROUGHT IRON HOT.  Trying to make
>a  right angle bend along the grain of WI is not easy.
>
>I swear, I forget to work hot enough, every piece I make, at some point or
>another- varies from "Just one more blow" <CRACK!!!> to getting impatient
>for it to come up to color.
>
> 4. HAVING THE RIGHT  SIZE STOCK SURE MAKES THINGS EASIER.   Blacksmiths
>from days gone must
>
>>have spent a lot of time taking the stock they had and making the stock
>>they needed.  Have often heard this but it really sinks in when you look
>>at you pile of collected pieces of WI and try to decide which one(ones)
>>you can easily hammer into the stock you need.  If I had tried to use
>>WI, I still be hammering.  The result was the decision to use Pure Iron.
>> The pure Iron stock wasn't the exact size I needed but was much closer.
>>
>
>I'm thinking the image of the burly smith was because they were their own
>power hammers ;-)
>
>>The second two test pieces I made ( the ones I wouldn't have needed if
>>I'd have listened to Phlip)were for my plan to make a hook on each piece
>>of angle meeting at the corner.  Looked good on paper but...  Would have
>> been a nightmare trying to match the two halves up especially
>>considering that there's a rivet directly under the hook.  Had to bend
>>the single hook out of the way to install the rivet.
>>
>
>Always keep in mind that matching two pieces exactly is a pain, and a
>TERRIFIC pain if you have to do it in tight quarters.
>
>>(Phlip that curly
>>que hook labeled 31A, I was reading another description of the fire grid
>>and it's describes it as a modification/repair. I'll send you the
>>website if I can relocate it)
>>
>
>Got it- Thanks....
>
>  5.  MAKING TOOLS IS PART OF THE JOB  Had
>
>>to make several tools to make rivets and protect the bottom rivet head
>>while hammering the top.  Made a half dozen or more test rivets,  first
>>in a single piece of stock and then in two pieces.
>>
>
>Got scrap I keep around specificly for making tools as needed. One is a
>fairly large piece of iron plate scrounged from beside some RR tracks, to be
>used as a shapeable mini anvil for rivet heads and the like, as well as some
>high grade bar stock
>
> 6. YOU ALWAYS PAY THE
>
>>PRICE FOR GETTING IN A HURRY  When I switched from riveting corners
>>together and grid pieces to angle sides (same size rivets) to riveting
>>the thin center strips I didn't bother to do a test piece. Half way
>>through doing the first rivet I knew something was wrong.  The head was
>>way too big and the rivet still wasn't tight. I had done the
>>calculations (Just the wrong ones) I forgot I wasn't riveting through
>>the grid pieces but between them. Now I had the fun of removing a rivet.
>> And yes, even now that I knew what I had done wrong, I did a test rivet
>>before continuing.  (You try cutting a 1/4 dia rivet out of two less
>>than 1/8" X 3/4" strips without ruining them once and you'll do a test
>>rivet too.)
>>
>
>Yeah. Sometimes, being tired can get you exhausted ;-O
>
>  7. WHAT WORKS IN ONE CASE DOESN'T WORK IN ANOTHER Made the
>
>>right decision to predrill the holes for the grid pieces in the side
>>angles before I assembled the frame.  (Yes I drilled the holes rather
>>then punch them - same reason I used PI instead of WI ) Then I made the
>>wrong decision to predrill all the holes in the center strips.  Even
>>though I had pre formed the top strip over each grid piece, as I worked
>>on the rivets, I found the fewer of the remaining holes lined up.  Spent
>>lots of time with a drift and heating the strips to realign the holes.
>> Luckily I had riveted the strips to the frame and both ends and started
>>with the center rivet.  If I had worked from one end, I probably would
>>have given up half  way through and had to remove all those rivets. They
>>would have been easier to take out though, since there would have been
>>no need to protect the strips.
>>
>
>Predrilling/punching has its uses, but usually you're better off to cut your
>holes as you go along with anything that might flex or change shape. Leather
>work is very similar to what you were doing, in that respect. There ARE ways
>to pre-plan your holes, but I've found that almost invariably I forget just
>one thing, and wind up compensating somewhere else- usually with an extra,
>unwanted hole somewhere- not good on either leather or steel.
>
>8.  A DISCARDED CHAIN EYE MAKES A GOOD
>
>>TOOL TO HEAT RIVETS IN THE FORGE  Was trying to decide how I was going
>>to heat the rivets in the forge when I looked down and saw a poorly
>>welded chain eye I had tossed on the floor.  With only minor
>>modification to tighten up the eye hole, it worked perfectly to hold
>>rivets and not loose them in the bottom of the forge.
>>
>
>Good thought.
>
> 9.  IF YOUR
>
>> FIRST IDEA DOESN'T WORK TRY ANOTHER ONE  My plan for the swivel eye on
>>the top plate, form the rivet head, slip it through the top plate then
>>heat and form the eye.  Phlip's plan form the eye, slip the end through
>>the top plat and then hammer the rivet head.  I tried them both.
>> Neither way worked, for me.  My way, I had a nice rivet had for the
>>swivel but the plate got in the way of forming a nice eye.  Phlip's way
>>I got a nice eye, but it got destroyed when trying to hold the shank to
>>form the rivet head.  I stopped this attempt when  I started to deform
>>my top plate.  The method that worked was to make the rivet head then to
>>partially form the eye (open  U shape) with  the tapered wrap end bent
>>at 90 degrees to that.  This could be slid through the top plate, then i
>>just had to heat, close the U  to form the eye and wrap the taper around
>>the shank.
>>
>
>My thought was to form the eye, leaving a long shank for the rivet head,
>then adjust my vise so the eye would slip in easily, resting on the knot.
>Two pieces of wood to rest the top plate on, cut the shank to size, heat,
>stack, then form the rivet head. Had also considered using a fork to protect
>the plate, not worrying about its final shape until the rivet head was
>formed, then heating and reshaping the plate a bit, to a nice curve. But, I
>use coal, and I can spot heat fairly conveniently. It's harder with most gas
>forges.
>
> 10.  MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A BIG ENOUGH OVEN TO HEAT  FINISH
>
>>YOUR COMPLETED ITEM.  I had to shoe horn the grid into my sister's oven.
>> All the racks removed at tilted at a 45 degrees front to back.  The
>>result is that my baked on beeswax finish is not as uniform as i would
>>have liked it.  If you look carefully at the pictures You'll see some
>>dark brown, not black areas.
>>
>
>It's too late now, but I'd have taken some foil, covered the brown patches,
>and run a torch over it to get it indirect heat. Glad you mentioned that,
>though- Margali's oven will fit a finished rack fine.
>
>>Well I'm sure there's some I've forgot.  I'll post them as I think of
>>
>them.
>
>Please do. when I do mine, then you can sit and laugh at the screw-ups I
>will undoubtedly find, and you forgot to mention. I'm VERY good at finding
>the wrong way to do something ;-)
>
>>For Phlip who's considering making one of these out of mild steel to
>>use.  Here are my thoughts:
>>
>
>>1.  Use angle iron for the frame.  I left a 1/4" x 3/4" x 1-1/2" piece
>>on the ends to form the hook  I forged the 3/16" thick frame out of 1/4"
>>stock but left the 1/4" thickness to form the hook.
>>
>
>Had intended to. Also, me being me, I tend to leave lots extra, because I
>know otherwise, I'll cut things too short.
>
>>2.  Turn the ~ 1/4" x 1/2" grid pieces on their sides  doing a 90 degree
>>twist at each end for the rivet.  Will strengthen the grid and should
>>eliminate the need for the center strips with all those extra rivets.
>> Or you could use 1/2" square if you don't mind the added weight.
>>
>
>I'm deliberately doing this as a reproduction, so I'll deal with the extra
>rivets. But, I'll keep it in mind for any I do strictly for use.
>
>>3.  Use regular chain (forge welded or store bought - your choice)
>> instead of the eye chain.  Or you could simply bend the eyes closed
>>without the weld.  Maintaining nice cleans eyes was a problem.
>>Especially the second one, forge welded with  the previous eye linked
>>in.  Finally  used a 1/2 circle chisel that I dulled.  It slid down
>>inside the the second eye with the first eye  nested on the inside the
>>half circle allowing the eye to be reshaped after the weld.
>>
>
>Will think about it. Thinking of bumming a friend's arc welder for closing
>the eyes. Good thought, though.
>
>>When you starting Phlip? send pictures.
>>
>
>Need to get mt forge up and running, now the weather is decent. Got a bit of
>work on the blower, but it shouldn't take long, once it stops raining. Hafta
>work outside because of the insurance and taxing mess in CT. But, I WUILL
>send pictures- the grill is part of several pieces I intend to do for a
>special presentation.
>
>Phlip
>
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