[TheForge] Mastermyr - Fire Grid

[Phlip]

OK, now suffer mt comments ;-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "April & Bill Clemens" <newky2@ceinetworks.com>
To: <theforge@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Mastermyr - Fire Grid


>   The things I learned while making the fire grid.
>
> 1.  TEST PIECES ARE OFTEN NEEDED and easier than working on the real
> piece and ruining it when you plan doesn't work.  I made 3 corner test
> pieces

Definitely. Unless the piece is dead simple, test pieces will give you an
opportunity to figure out the best way to do smoething.

 2. LISTEN TO OTHERS ADVISE - If I had I would probably have
> only done one.  The first test piece I made was from Wrought Iron.

Listen to yourself, too- think things out.

 3.  LEARNED / RELEARNED THE NEED TO WORK WROUGHT IRON HOT.  Trying to make
a  right angle bend along the grain of WI is not easy.

I swear, I forget to work hot enough, every piece I make, at some point or
another- varies from "Just one more blow" <CRACK!!!> to getting impatient
for it to come up to color.

 4. HAVING THE RIGHT  SIZE STOCK SURE MAKES THINGS EASIER.   Blacksmiths
from days gone must
> have spent a lot of time taking the stock they had and making the stock
> they needed.  Have often heard this but it really sinks in when you look
> at you pile of collected pieces of WI and try to decide which one(ones)
> you can easily hammer into the stock you need.  If I had tried to use
> WI, I still be hammering.  The result was the decision to use Pure Iron.
>  The pure Iron stock wasn't the exact size I needed but was much closer.

I'm thinking the image of the burly smith was because they were their own
power hammers ;-)

> The second two test pieces I made ( the ones I wouldn't have needed if
> I'd have listened to Phlip)were for my plan to make a hook on each piece
> of angle meeting at the corner.  Looked good on paper but...  Would have
>  been a nightmare trying to match the two halves up especially
> considering that there's a rivet directly under the hook.  Had to bend
> the single hook out of the way to install the rivet.

Always keep in mind that matching two pieces exactly is a pain, and a
TERRIFIC pain if you have to do it in tight quarters.

> (Phlip that curly
> que hook labeled 31A, I was reading another description of the fire grid
> and it's describes it as a modification/repair. I'll send you the
> website if I can relocate it)

Got it- Thanks....

  5.  MAKING TOOLS IS PART OF THE JOB  Had
> to make several tools to make rivets and protect the bottom rivet head
> while hammering the top.  Made a half dozen or more test rivets,  first
> in a single piece of stock and then in two pieces.

Got scrap I keep around specificly for making tools as needed. One is a
fairly large piece of iron plate scrounged from beside some RR tracks, to be
used as a shapeable mini anvil for rivet heads and the like, as well as some
high grade bar stock

 6. YOU ALWAYS PAY THE
> PRICE FOR GETTING IN A HURRY  When I switched from riveting corners
> together and grid pieces to angle sides (same size rivets) to riveting
> the thin center strips I didn't bother to do a test piece. Half way
> through doing the first rivet I knew something was wrong.  The head was
> way too big and the rivet still wasn't tight. I had done the
> calculations (Just the wrong ones) I forgot I wasn't riveting through
> the grid pieces but between them. Now I had the fun of removing a rivet.
>  And yes, even now that I knew what I had done wrong, I did a test rivet
> before continuing.  (You try cutting a 1/4 dia rivet out of two less
> than 1/8" X 3/4" strips without ruining them once and you'll do a test
> rivet too.)

Yeah. Sometimes, being tired can get you exhausted ;-O

  7. WHAT WORKS IN ONE CASE DOESN'T WORK IN ANOTHER Made the
> right decision to predrill the holes for the grid pieces in the side
> angles before I assembled the frame.  (Yes I drilled the holes rather
> then punch them - same reason I used PI instead of WI ) Then I made the
> wrong decision to predrill all the holes in the center strips.  Even
> though I had pre formed the top strip over each grid piece, as I worked
> on the rivets, I found the fewer of the remaining holes lined up.  Spent
> lots of time with a drift and heating the strips to realign the holes.
>  Luckily I had riveted the strips to the frame and both ends and started
> with the center rivet.  If I had worked from one end, I probably would
> have given up half  way through and had to remove all those rivets. They
> would have been easier to take out though, since there would have been
> no need to protect the strips.

Predrilling/punching has its uses, but usually you're better off to cut your
holes as you go along with anything that might flex or change shape. Leather
work is very similar to what you were doing, in that respect. There ARE ways
to pre-plan your holes, but I've found that almost invariably I forget just
one thing, and wind up compensating somewhere else- usually with an extra,
unwanted hole somewhere- not good on either leather or steel.

8.  A DISCARDED CHAIN EYE MAKES A GOOD
> TOOL TO HEAT RIVETS IN THE FORGE  Was trying to decide how I was going
> to heat the rivets in the forge when I looked down and saw a poorly
> welded chain eye I had tossed on the floor.  With only minor
> modification to tighten up the eye hole, it worked perfectly to hold
> rivets and not loose them in the bottom of the forge.

Good thought.

 9.  IF YOUR
>  FIRST IDEA DOESN'T WORK TRY ANOTHER ONE  My plan for the swivel eye on
> the top plate, form the rivet head, slip it through the top plate then
> heat and form the eye.  Phlip's plan form the eye, slip the end through
> the top plat and then hammer the rivet head.  I tried them both.
>  Neither way worked, for me.  My way, I had a nice rivet had for the
> swivel but the plate got in the way of forming a nice eye.  Phlip's way
> I got a nice eye, but it got destroyed when trying to hold the shank to
> form the rivet head.  I stopped this attempt when  I started to deform
> my top plate.  The method that worked was to make the rivet head then to
> partially form the eye (open  U shape) with  the tapered wrap end bent
> at 90 degrees to that.  This could be slid through the top plate, then i
> just had to heat, close the U  to form the eye and wrap the taper around
> the shank.

My thought was to form the eye, leaving a long shank for the rivet head,
then adjust my vise so the eye would slip in easily, resting on the knot.
Two pieces of wood to rest the top plate on, cut the shank to size, heat,
stack, then form the rivet head. Had also considered using a fork to protect
the plate, not worrying about its final shape until the rivet head was
formed, then heating and reshaping the plate a bit, to a nice curve. But, I
use coal, and I can spot heat fairly conveniently. It's harder with most gas
forges.

 10.  MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A BIG ENOUGH OVEN TO HEAT  FINISH
> YOUR COMPLETED ITEM.  I had to shoe horn the grid into my sister's oven.
>  All the racks removed at tilted at a 45 degrees front to back.  The
> result is that my baked on beeswax finish is not as uniform as i would
> have liked it.  If you look carefully at the pictures You'll see some
> dark brown, not black areas.

It's too late now, but I'd have taken some foil, covered the brown patches,
and run a torch over it to get it indirect heat. Glad you mentioned that,
though- Margali's oven will fit a finished rack fine.

> Well I'm sure there's some I've forgot.  I'll post them as I think of
them.

Please do. when I do mine, then you can sit and laugh at the screw-ups I
will undoubtedly find, and you forgot to mention. I'm VERY good at finding
the wrong way to do something ;-)

> For Phlip who's considering making one of these out of mild steel to
> use.  Here are my thoughts:

> 1.  Use angle iron for the frame.  I left a 1/4" x 3/4" x 1-1/2" piece
> on the ends to form the hook  I forged the 3/16" thick frame out of 1/4"
> stock but left the 1/4" thickness to form the hook.

Had intended to. Also, me being me, I tend to leave lots extra, because I
know otherwise, I'll cut things too short.

> 2.  Turn the ~ 1/4" x 1/2" grid pieces on their sides  doing a 90 degree
> twist at each end for the rivet.  Will strengthen the grid and should
> eliminate the need for the center strips with all those extra rivets.
>  Or you could use 1/2" square if you don't mind the added weight.

I'm deliberately doing this as a reproduction, so I'll deal with the extra
rivets. But, I'll keep it in mind for any I do strictly for use.

> 3.  Use regular chain (forge welded or store bought - your choice)
>  instead of the eye chain.  Or you could simply bend the eyes closed
> without the weld.  Maintaining nice cleans eyes was a problem.
> Especially the second one, forge welded with  the previous eye linked
> in.  Finally  used a 1/2 circle chisel that I dulled.  It slid down
> inside the the second eye with the first eye  nested on the inside the
> half circle allowing the eye to be reshaped after the weld.

Will think about it. Thinking of bumming a friend's arc welder for closing
the eyes. Good thought, though.

> When you starting Phlip? send pictures.

Need to get mt forge up and running, now the weather is decent. Got a bit of
work on the blower, but it shouldn't take long, once it stops raining. Hafta
work outside because of the insurance and taxing mess in CT. But, I WUILL
send pictures- the grill is part of several pieces I intend to do for a
special presentation.

Phlip