[TheForge] Mastermyr - Fire Grid

Fri Jun 7 19:37:00 2002

Wide thin bars even!

April & Bill Clemens wrote:

> Phlip,
>
> Your comments were no suffering at all. 
>
> A friend of mine gave me a good idea for WI stock to make one of these 
> - Wagon Tires - Wide this bars just like you need. 
>
> Bill
>
> Phlip wrote:
>
>> OK, now suffer mt comments ;-)
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "April & Bill Clemens" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Mastermyr - Fire Grid
>>
>>
>>>  The things I learned while making the fire grid.
>>>
>>> 1.  TEST PIECES ARE OFTEN NEEDED and easier than working on the real
>>> piece and ruining it when you plan doesn't work.  I made 3 corner test
>>> pieces
>>>
>>
>> Definitely. Unless the piece is dead simple, test pieces will give 
>> you an
>> opportunity to figure out the best way to do smoething.
>>
>> 2. LISTEN TO OTHERS ADVISE - If I had I would probably have
>>
>>> only done one.  The first test piece I made was from Wrought Iron.
>>>
>>
>> Listen to yourself, too- think things out.
>>
>> 3.  LEARNED / RELEARNED THE NEED TO WORK WROUGHT IRON HOT.  Trying to 
>> make
>> a  right angle bend along the grain of WI is not easy.
>>
>> I swear, I forget to work hot enough, every piece I make, at some 
>> point or
>> another- varies from "Just one more blow" <CRACK!!!> to getting 
>> impatient
>> for it to come up to color.
>>
>> 4. HAVING THE RIGHT  SIZE STOCK SURE MAKES THINGS EASIER.   Blacksmiths
>> from days gone must
>>
>>> have spent a lot of time taking the stock they had and making the stock
>>> they needed.  Have often heard this but it really sinks in when you 
>>> look
>>> at you pile of collected pieces of WI and try to decide which one(ones)
>>> you can easily hammer into the stock you need.  If I had tried to use
>>> WI, I still be hammering.  The result was the decision to use Pure 
>>> Iron.
>>> The pure Iron stock wasn't the exact size I needed but was much closer.
>>>
>>
>> I'm thinking the image of the burly smith was because they were their 
>> own
>> power hammers ;-)
>>
>>> The second two test pieces I made ( the ones I wouldn't have needed if
>>> I'd have listened to Phlip)were for my plan to make a hook on each 
>>> piece
>>> of angle meeting at the corner.  Looked good on paper but...  Would 
>>> have
>>> been a nightmare trying to match the two halves up especially
>>> considering that there's a rivet directly under the hook.  Had to bend
>>> the single hook out of the way to install the rivet.
>>>
>>
>> Always keep in mind that matching two pieces exactly is a pain, and a
>> TERRIFIC pain if you have to do it in tight quarters.
>>
>>> (Phlip that curly
>>> que hook labeled 31A, I was reading another description of the fire 
>>> grid
>>> and it's describes it as a modification/repair. I'll send you the
>>> website if I can relocate it)
>>>
>>
>> Got it- Thanks....
>>
>>  5.  MAKING TOOLS IS PART OF THE JOB  Had
>>
>>> to make several tools to make rivets and protect the bottom rivet head
>>> while hammering the top.  Made a half dozen or more test rivets,  first
>>> in a single piece of stock and then in two pieces.
>>>
>>
>> Got scrap I keep around specificly for making tools as needed. One is a
>> fairly large piece of iron plate scrounged from beside some RR 
>> tracks, to be
>> used as a shapeable mini anvil for rivet heads and the like, as well 
>> as some
>> high grade bar stock
>>
>> 6. YOU ALWAYS PAY THE
>>
>>> PRICE FOR GETTING IN A HURRY  When I switched from riveting corners
>>> together and grid pieces to angle sides (same size rivets) to riveting
>>> the thin center strips I didn't bother to do a test piece. Half way
>>> through doing the first rivet I knew something was wrong.  The head was
>>> way too big and the rivet still wasn't tight. I had done the
>>> calculations (Just the wrong ones) I forgot I wasn't riveting through
>>> the grid pieces but between them. Now I had the fun of removing a 
>>> rivet.
>>> And yes, even now that I knew what I had done wrong, I did a test rivet
>>> before continuing.  (You try cutting a 1/4 dia rivet out of two less
>>> than 1/8" X 3/4" strips without ruining them once and you'll do a test
>>> rivet too.)
>>>
>>
>> Yeah. Sometimes, being tired can get you exhausted ;-O
>>
>>  7. WHAT WORKS IN ONE CASE DOESN'T WORK IN ANOTHER Made the
>>
>>> right decision to predrill the holes for the grid pieces in the side
>>> angles before I assembled the frame.  (Yes I drilled the holes rather
>>> then punch them - same reason I used PI instead of WI ) Then I made the
>>> wrong decision to predrill all the holes in the center strips.  Even
>>> though I had pre formed the top strip over each grid piece, as I worked
>>> on the rivets, I found the fewer of the remaining holes lined up.  
>>> Spent
>>> lots of time with a drift and heating the strips to realign the holes.
>>> Luckily I had riveted the strips to the frame and both ends and started
>>> with the center rivet.  If I had worked from one end, I probably would
>>> have given up half  way through and had to remove all those rivets. 
>>> They
>>> would have been easier to take out though, since there would have been
>>> no need to protect the strips.
>>>
>>
>> Predrilling/punching has its uses, but usually you're better off to 
>> cut your
>> holes as you go along with anything that might flex or change shape. 
>> Leather
>> work is very similar to what you were doing, in that respect. There 
>> ARE ways
>> to pre-plan your holes, but I've found that almost invariably I 
>> forget just
>> one thing, and wind up compensating somewhere else- usually with an 
>> extra,
>> unwanted hole somewhere- not good on either leather or steel.
>>
>> 8.  A DISCARDED CHAIN EYE MAKES A GOOD
>>
>>> TOOL TO HEAT RIVETS IN THE FORGE  Was trying to decide how I was going
>>> to heat the rivets in the forge when I looked down and saw a poorly
>>> welded chain eye I had tossed on the floor.  With only minor
>>> modification to tighten up the eye hole, it worked perfectly to hold
>>> rivets and not loose them in the bottom of the forge.
>>>
>>
>> Good thought.
>>
>> 9.  IF YOUR
>>
>>> FIRST IDEA DOESN'T WORK TRY ANOTHER ONE  My plan for the swivel eye on
>>> the top plate, form the rivet head, slip it through the top plate then
>>> heat and form the eye.  Phlip's plan form the eye, slip the end through
>>> the top plat and then hammer the rivet head.  I tried them both.
>>> Neither way worked, for me.  My way, I had a nice rivet had for the
>>> swivel but the plate got in the way of forming a nice eye.  Phlip's way
>>> I got a nice eye, but it got destroyed when trying to hold the shank to
>>> form the rivet head.  I stopped this attempt when  I started to deform
>>> my top plate.  The method that worked was to make the rivet head 
>>> then to
>>> partially form the eye (open  U shape) with  the tapered wrap end bent
>>> at 90 degrees to that.  This could be slid through the top plate, 
>>> then i
>>> just had to heat, close the U  to form the eye and wrap the taper 
>>> around
>>> the shank.
>>>
>>
>> My thought was to form the eye, leaving a long shank for the rivet head,
>> then adjust my vise so the eye would slip in easily, resting on the 
>> knot.
>> Two pieces of wood to rest the top plate on, cut the shank to size, 
>> heat,
>> stack, then form the rivet head. Had also considered using a fork to 
>> protect
>> the plate, not worrying about its final shape until the rivet head was
>> formed, then heating and reshaping the plate a bit, to a nice curve. 
>> But, I
>> use coal, and I can spot heat fairly conveniently. It's harder with 
>> most gas
>> forges.
>>
>> 10.  MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A BIG ENOUGH OVEN TO HEAT  FINISH
>>
>>> YOUR COMPLETED ITEM.  I had to shoe horn the grid into my sister's 
>>> oven.
>>> All the racks removed at tilted at a 45 degrees front to back.  The
>>> result is that my baked on beeswax finish is not as uniform as i would
>>> have liked it.  If you look carefully at the pictures You'll see some
>>> dark brown, not black areas.
>>>
>>
>> It's too late now, but I'd have taken some foil, covered the brown 
>> patches,
>> and run a torch over it to get it indirect heat. Glad you mentioned 
>> that,
>> though- Margali's oven will fit a finished rack fine.
>>
>>> Well I'm sure there's some I've forgot.  I'll post them as I think of
>>>
>> them.
>>
>> Please do. when I do mine, then you can sit and laugh at the screw-ups I
>> will undoubtedly find, and you forgot to mention. I'm VERY good at 
>> finding
>> the wrong way to do something ;-)
>>
>>> For Phlip who's considering making one of these out of mild steel to
>>> use.  Here are my thoughts:
>>>
>>
>>> 1.  Use angle iron for the frame.  I left a 1/4" x 3/4" x 1-1/2" piece
>>> on the ends to form the hook  I forged the 3/16" thick frame out of 
>>> 1/4"
>>> stock but left the 1/4" thickness to form the hook.
>>>
>>
>> Had intended to. Also, me being me, I tend to leave lots extra, 
>> because I
>> know otherwise, I'll cut things too short.
>>
>>> 2.  Turn the ~ 1/4" x 1/2" grid pieces on their sides  doing a 90 
>>> degree
>>> twist at each end for the rivet.  Will strengthen the grid and should
>>> eliminate the need for the center strips with all those extra rivets.
>>> Or you could use 1/2" square if you don't mind the added weight.
>>>
>>
>> I'm deliberately doing this as a reproduction, so I'll deal with the 
>> extra
>> rivets. But, I'll keep it in mind for any I do strictly for use.
>>
>>> 3.  Use regular chain (forge welded or store bought - your choice)
>>> instead of the eye chain.  Or you could simply bend the eyes closed
>>> without the weld.  Maintaining nice cleans eyes was a problem.
>>> Especially the second one, forge welded with  the previous eye linked
>>> in.  Finally  used a 1/2 circle chisel that I dulled.  It slid down
>>> inside the the second eye with the first eye  nested on the inside the
>>> half circle allowing the eye to be reshaped after the weld.
>>>
>>
>> Will think about it. Thinking of bumming a friend's arc welder for 
>> closing
>> the eyes. Good thought, though.
>>
>>> When you starting Phlip? send pictures.
>>>
>>
>> Need to get mt forge up and running, now the weather is decent. Got a 
>> bit of
>> work on the blower, but it shouldn't take long, once it stops 
>> raining. Hafta
>> work outside because of the insurance and taxing mess in CT. But, I 
>> WUILL
>> send pictures- the grill is part of several pieces I intend to do for a
>> special presentation.
>>
>> Phlip
>>
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