[TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer

Sat Dec 7 00:38:03 2002

At 07:29 PM 12/6/02, you wrote:

If I may add to the chorus of ignorance here;
I'd guess that the piston and cylinder are machined pretty close to a fit , 
and the last little bit of fit up is done with a  fine greasy grit working 
one part into the other so that the finished clearance is quite tight.
The method that involves  constantly reapplying goose grease to the piston 
and abrasive grit on your dog's tongue is sure to take much too long.....Pete

>Steve,
>I am not an expert at lapping, but a brake cylinder lap can be used. You can
>buy them for around 15.00 at auto parts store. They have three prongs which
>have a small stone at the end. As the lap spins, the prongs spread outward
>to force the stones against the surface being honed..Chuck the lap in a
>drill and get at it. I did this to smooth the surface of the bored hole thru
>which the spools rotate.
>I also cobbled a lap by drilling a hole in the long axis of a scrap round
>that was near the size of the valve hole. I made some cuts lengthwise at the
>bottom end of the round. I wrapped sand paper around the round and drove a
>tapered rod into the hole I drilled so it would cause a little expansion
>after it was inserted in the hole. I turned a small diameter on the other
>end of the round so it would fit in the drill chuck. I probably could have
>gotten by with this lap , but the brake cyl. lap was easy to use.
>Bob
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 8:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
>
>
> > No plans, just his booklet on how Nazel's work with a few pages on his
> > prototype.
> >
> > It looks like spool valves might work; if not, I'm going to have to
> > figure out lapping.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > lama wrote:
> > > Steve, I don't know about yardsticks, but I don't think that one
> > > can compare Kinyons & Nazels. It's like apples & oranges.
> > > I would love to have a Nazel,,,, and if I could find one in
> > > working order for $1,000 I would grab it. I guess that the bottom
> > > line here is that we are talking about folks building their own air
>hammers.
> > > The Nazel is not a homemade hammer, the Krause & Kinyon are.
> > > Kinyon = (no machining necessary) (you need a compressor)
> > > Krause = (advanced machining skills required) (you need a lathe etc.)
> > > Now if Krause would offer the plans AND sell "the valve", I'll bet that
> > > he would have a lot of business. I know that I would seriously consider
> > > using that system on my big hammer, but I don't have any machining
> > > skills and I don't have a lathe.  I still haven't found out if there are
> > > published plans available. Where? how much?
> > >
> > > dave m
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 8:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>It sounds like my Kinyon comments are being taken as critical of the
> > >>design. That was not at all my intention. I realize the hammer can do
> > >>lots of useful work, and certainly respect Kinyon's contribution.
> > >>
> > >>The way I think about the difference between the hammers (please add or
> > >>subtract as you folks see it) is as follows:
> > >>A Kinyon is like moving a ball bearing with a yardstick. The bearing
> > >>moves just fine, but when you try to reverse it, it takes a bit to
> > >>regain control.
> > >>A Nazel is like moving a ball bearing with two yardsticks, one on each
> > >>side. You can put it right where you want it.
> > >>
> > >>The ball bearing is the hammer head, of course, yardsticks are air.
> > >>
> > >>Hey, please keep up this discussion; I'll be out of town until Thursday.
> > >>
> > >>Steve
> > >>
> > >>lama wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>air through the spool valve to the top of the cylinder, forcing it
>down.
> > >>
> > > A
> > >
> > >>>little
> > >>>exhaust causes a little movement of the cylinder (ram, head, top die)
> > >>
> > > and a
> > >
> > >>>light tap. A heavy foot on the exhaust valve (treadle) causes a heavy
> > >>
> > > blow.
> > >
> > >>>This hammer hits a lot harder than my 50# Little Giant ever did.  The
> > >>>downward
> > >>>movement of the ram activates a pilot switch. The pilot switch tells
>the
> > >>>spool
> > >>>valve to rout the air to the bottom side of the cylinder, thus forcing
> > >>
> > > the
> > >
> > >>>cylinder
> > >>>upward and activating the pilot switch once again which tells the spool
> > >>>valve to
> > >>>rout the air to the top of the cylinder, thus forcing the downward
> > >>
> > > stroke
> > >
> > >>>and
> > >>>the cycle keeps repeating. The Kinyon hammer does not have the ability
> > >>
> > > to
> > >
> > >>>clamp & hold a piece of work. Bob Bergman's "KA-75" can do that quite
> > >>
> > > well
> > >
> > >>>as will the "Blue" but @ $4,000, they are out of my price range. The
> > >>
> > > Kinyon
> > >
> > >>>is
> > >>>not a Nazel or a Chambersburg or any of the Chinese / Turkish Nazel
> > >>>knock-offs.
> > >>>They cost $8k - $30k and are way out of my price range. The Kinyon cost
> > >>>about $1,000 or less depending on your local scrap yard. The bottom
>line
> > >>
> > > is
> > >
> > >>>that
> > >>>the Kinyon design works quite well and there are lots of them around. I
> > >>
> > > can
> > >
> > >>>think
> > >>>of 7 Kinyons in a 100 mile radius.
> > >>>I am not down on the Krause hammer at all. In fact I think that it's
> > >>>probably a
> > >>>great idea. I would love to see plans because there is still time to
> > >>
> > > make my
> > >
> > >>>big
> > >>>hammer in that manner.
> > >>>dave m
> > >>>
> > >>>----- Original Message -----
> > >>>From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
> > >>>To: <[email protected]>
> > >>>Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 6:15 PM
> > >>>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Well, I'd like something larger than my current 25 pound LG. This gets
> > >>>>into a 5-7.5HP compressor pretty quickly from what I hear.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I don't mean to bad mouth the Kinyon design; from what I understand
>(I'm
> > >>>>hoping Dave M. will jump in and improve me), Kinyon's push on one side
> > >>>>of the piston, then push on the other side. You can do a lot of work
>on
> > >>>>this style hammer, but it doesn't seem like you have a lot of control
>of
> > >>>>the ram position.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Steve
> > >>>>
> > >>>
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