Thanks John - Now explain "grave and gathering danger..." or whatever he said. He often puts /s/ in place of /z/ at the ends of words ("friendssss", etc.) but I had never heard this one anywhere but in the phrase "gathering storm" ("gathering clouds" I will buy, also). Have you? Thanks, 73 Jan KF0Z #389 (definitely want to vote "I don't know" but will start working on a callsign (still have dibs on N0AAA)