[R-390] Compressor stall (nee Cosmos Dis-assembly)

Sat Apr 17 22:18:32 EDT 2010

Barry, again, you do not know what you are talking about. If you did, you
would cite facts, examples, and share your background knowledge to back up
your original, provoking, language, if you are REALLY who you say you are.
I'll help with a few observations.

Why did 12,500 controllers, out of a workforce of 17,500, end up letting
their jobs go?

Did the Feds want the controllers to have a union?

What were the issues concerning improving the ATC system?

What were the safety issues that were present?

What were the money concerns of the controllers?

What were the workweek hours issues?

What were the staffing issues?

Barry, your approach is to burn down what you disagree with and label those
who you disagree with provoking, thoughtless language. It is not helpful and
is certainly divisive.

According to you, the issues were a controller work force that were "bad",
clueless, unhelpful, unfriendly, and not "fun" to talk to. Do you really
stand on your original language?

C'mon Barry, man up, and instead of being a provocateur, let's see you
address some of the very serious issues that surrounded a very significant
period in aviation history. Or are you an empty blowhard who provokes, then
wilts away with no courage to speak of.

The ball is in your court. He, he.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: r-390-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:r-390-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of Barry Williams
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 9:15 PM
Cc: 'R390 reflector'
Subject: Re: [R-390] Compressor stall (nee Cosmos Dis-assembly)

Jim,

Thank you for your enlightened viewpoint. Sorry, but you are just wrong 
across the board. Heh heh, I think we got us a former PATCO member.

I thought about the lazy union crybabies like that because I was a pilot 
back then. It was a firsthand sort of thing. I was brought up around 
that stuff, so I have a background.

Yes, it is amazing there are so many of us still around, isn't it?  Get 
over it. I just briefly mentioned a few things like they really happened 
and this history, wars, and politics stuff gets drug out.

Hit piece? Okay. Whatever.

Barry

p.s. I'll get off topic any time I wish. You'll learn how it works one 
day, grasshopper.

> Barry, jack of all trades. You seem like an emotional sort of guy. You
think
> and judge, clearly, from emotion and not from facts. You expressed no
facts.
> You have no idea what the issues were surrounding the PATCO labor dispute,
> and what was at stake during that time in history. It sounds like you just
> think it was, simply, a them against us thing, and they got theirs.
Amazing
> how people like Barry are still fighting political wars from decades ago. 
>
> Now that Barry got his political hit piece in, and I responded, we need to
> get back to R-390's.
>
> Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: r-390-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:r-390-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
> On Behalf Of Barry Williams
> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 11:14 AM
> To: R390 reflector
> Subject: Re: [R-390] Compressor stall (nee Cosmos Dis-assembly)
>
> I've not heard of a turbine that doesn't have an engine restart 
> procedure. Even the lowly helicopters I flew had them. It may take 
> several thousand feet to get it restarted, but they are meant to 
> restart. Having some sort of failure or damage changes things somewhat. 
> We practiced those over and over in the simulators.
>
> I had small compressor stalls only once. I was flying nights with 
> goggles with students in Alabama. We were flying around 400' over the 
> trees. I was a brand new night instructor and still a little nervous. I 
> went for the first field I saw when I realized it was stalling over and 
> over. As soon as I got close to the ground and saw the big transmission 
> lines, I did exactly what you aren't supposed to do. I pulled in full 
> power to get out of there before hitting the wires. That turbine ran 
> like a champ until I set down about a mile away.
>
> The plane over the Hudson didn't have near the altitude needed for a 
> restart attempt.
>
> Declining ATC suggestions? I've turned down directions more than a few 
> times. Sometimes, they are just lollygagging around the air conditioned 
> tower, and are clueless. The best thing that ever happened was when 
> Reagan fired the striking controllers in PATCO. The radio traffic 
> instantly became friendlier and more helpful. The bad ones were gone and 
> it was fun to talk to ATC once more.
>
> It also depends on what controller level you talk to. Centers like 
> Atlanta are the best and rarely mess up. You know you are in good hands 
> with those guys.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
>   
>> Beat me to it...
>>
>> A simple stall is one thing a FOD'd engine is another story.  But a
>>     
> restart 
>   
>> might get you enough power to get you back to the field...it you don't
>>     
> have 
>   
>> an engine fire in the process....
>>
>> Cecil...
>>
>>
>> Andy,
>>
>> They "can" be restarted in flight.  The difficulty is that you CANNOT
>> tell if it was a "simple" compressor stall OR did you just ingest as
bird.
>>
>> After the "Miracle on the Hudson", mental priorities and possibilities
>> have changed.  The awareness is different.
>>
>> It is up to the Pilot in Command, PIC, what flows and what goes.
>>
>> He can tell ATC, a ground controller, and approach control to "stick it"
>> IF he feels safety isn't being adequately addressed, or other issues.
>>
>> I ran into this my self twice when I flew as PIC.  Once I simply told
>> the Tower to wait - My hands were full due to clear air turbulence that
>> drifted over MY runway from a flight that took off over 5 mins earlier.
>> The "heavy" had left its wake, and the crosswinds had blown it over to
>> my runway.  The Tower had NO way of knowing what I was fighting.  Then
>> again, they weren't paying attention to the position of the ailerons and
>> rudder.
>>
>> The second one was when they told me to turn downwind into traffic they
>> had cleared another aircraft inbound.
>>
>> It just happens!
>>
>> Bob - N0DGN
>>
>> On 4/16/2010 4:05 PM, James A. (Andy) Moorer wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> It happened to me and my son a few years ago. It sure got our attention.

>>> It
>>> is a sight you really don't ever want to see. Since it was during the
>>> full-power ascent shortly after takeoff, the pilot just turned around
and
>>> took it back in.
>>>
>>> Does anybody know if the engine can be restarted after a stall? It seems
>>> like it would be pretty messed up at that point.
>>>
>>> If the pilot was an engine short for the landing, I sure didn't notice
>>>       
> it.
>   
>>> Modern airplanes must be pretty remarkable machines.
>>>
>>> James A. (Andy) Moorer
>>> www.jamminpower.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Compressor stalls happen in real life, too. I've never been on an 
>>>> aircraft
>>>> when one took place, but I know some folks who have, and they say they
>>>> were
>>>> *AWAKE* for the rest of the flight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       
>>>>         
>
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