[R-390] Compressor stall (nee Cosmos Dis-assembly)

[Barry Williams]

Defending union strikers must be tough and frustrating.

> /Barry, again, you do not know what you are talking about. If you did, you
> would cite facts, examples, and share your background knowledge to back up
> your original, provoking, language, if you are REALLY who you say you are.
> I'll help with a few observations./
>
> /Why did 12,500 controllers, out of a workforce of 17,500, end up letting their jobs go? Did the Feds want the controllers to have a union? What were the issues concerning improving the ATC system? What were the safety issues that were present? What were the money concerns of the controllers? What were the workweek hours issues? What were the staffing issues?/
>   

Nobody cares where their jobs went, how much they were paid, silly 
staffing issues, or precious work schedules. This is just more evidence 
of the attitudes that are running this country into the dirt. They 
thought of themselves as being above the rules and too important to 
fire. Guess what- they were wrong. They went on strike to bring this 
country to a standstill. President Reagan did the manly thing and fired 
all of them. Poof, no more staffing issues, work schedule problems, or 
issues.

> /Barry, your approach is to burn down what you disagree with and label those
> who you disagree with provoking, thoughtless language. It is not helpful and
> is certainly divisive.
>
> According to you, the issues were a controller work force that were "bad",
> clueless, unhelpful, unfriendly, and not "fun" to talk to. Do you really
> stand on your original language?/
>   


Okay. How about a universal attitude of arrogance? It became a fad for 
controllers to give the minimum assistance on first calls. You had to 
ask for them to do their jobs. Controllers were lazy.  I never met a 
single pilot who missed the fired controllers. On the other hand, we 
were all happy with those who remained and the replacements who treated 
their duties as a job, and not an entitlement. Even the remaining 
controllers would tell you how glad they were the old farts were gone. 
Over the radio! Deal with it. Nobody missed them. The aviation world 
improved.

> /C'mon Barry, man up, and instead of being a provocateur, let's see you
> address some of the very serious issues that surrounded a very significant
> period in aviation history. Or are you an empty blowhard who provokes, then
> wilts away with no courage to speak of.
>
> The ball is in your court. He, he.
>
> Jim/
>
> -
>   

I think you are the one who is hiding behind something with all this 
PATCO defense. Or, are you one of those who blindly go ballistic over 
any anti-union comments? Just live with it and let's get moving to 
something else.


the other Barry

> Jim,
>
> Thank you for your enlightened viewpoint. Sorry, but you are just wrong 
> across the board. Heh heh, I think we got us a former PATCO member.
>
> I thought about the lazy union crybabies like that because I was a pilot 
> back then. It was a firsthand sort of thing. I was brought up around 
> that stuff, so I have a background.
>
> Yes, it is amazing there are so many of us still around, isn't it?  Get 
> over it. I just briefly mentioned a few things like they really happened 
> and this history, wars, and politics stuff gets drug out.
>
> Hit piece? Okay. Whatever.
>
>
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> p.s. I'll get off topic any time I wish. You'll learn how it works one 
> day, grasshopper.
>
>
>   
>> Barry, jack of all trades. You seem like an emotional sort of guy. You
>>     
> think
>   
>> and judge, clearly, from emotion and not from facts. You expressed no
>>     
> facts.
>   
>> You have no idea what the issues were surrounding the PATCO labor dispute,
>> and what was at stake during that time in history. It sounds like you just
>> think it was, simply, a them against us thing, and they got theirs.
>>     
> Amazing
>   
>> how people like Barry are still fighting political wars from decades ago. 
>>
>> Now that Barry got his political hit piece in, and I responded, we need to
>> get back to R-390's.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> -
>> I've not heard of a turbine that doesn't have an engine restart 
>> procedure. Even the lowly helicopters I flew had them. It may take 
>> several thousand feet to get it restarted, but they are meant to 
>> restart. Having some sort of failure or damage changes things somewhat. 
>> We practiced those over and over in the simulators.
>>
>> I had small compressor stalls only once. I was flying nights with 
>> goggles with students in Alabama. We were flying around 400' over the 
>> trees. I was a brand new night instructor and still a little nervous. I 
>> went for the first field I saw when I realized it was stalling over and 
>> over. As soon as I got close to the ground and saw the big transmission 
>> lines, I did exactly what you aren't supposed to do. I pulled in full 
>> power to get out of there before hitting the wires. That turbine ran 
>> like a champ until I set down about a mile away.
>>
>> The plane over the Hudson didn't have near the altitude needed for a 
>> restart attempt.
>>
>> Declining ATC suggestions? I've turned down directions more than a few 
>> times. Sometimes, they are just lollygagging around the air conditioned 
>> tower, and are clueless. The best thing that ever happened was when 
>> Reagan fired the striking controllers in PATCO. The radio traffic 
>> instantly became friendlier and more helpful. The bad ones were gone and 
>> it was fun to talk to ATC once more.
>>
>> It also depends on what controller level you talk to. Centers like 
>> Atlanta are the best and rarely mess up. You know you are in good hands 
>> with those guys.
>>
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> Beat me to it...
>>>
>>> A simple stall is one thing a FOD'd engine is another story.  But a
>>>     
>>>       
>> restart 
>>   
>>     
>>> might get you enough power to get you back to the field...it you don't
>>>     
>>>       
>> have 
>>   
>>     
>>> an engine fire in the process....
>>>
>>> Cecil...
>>>
>>>
>>> Andy,
>>>
>>> They "can" be restarted in flight.  The difficulty is that you CANNOT
>>> tell if it was a "simple" compressor stall OR did you just ingest as
>>>       
> bird.
>   
>>> After the "Miracle on the Hudson", mental priorities and possibilities
>>> have changed.  The awareness is different.
>>>
>>> It is up to the Pilot in Command, PIC, what flows and what goes.
>>>
>>> He can tell ATC, a ground controller, and approach control to "stick it"
>>> IF he feels safety isn't being adequately addressed, or other issues.
>>>
>>> I ran into this my self twice when I flew as PIC.  Once I simply told
>>> the Tower to wait - My hands were full due to clear air turbulence that
>>> drifted over MY runway from a flight that took off over 5 mins earlier.
>>> The "heavy" had left its wake, and the crosswinds had blown it over to
>>> my runway.  The Tower had NO way of knowing what I was fighting.  Then
>>> again, they weren't paying attention to the position of the ailerons and
>>> rudder.
>>>
>>> The second one was when they told me to turn downwind into traffic they
>>> had cleared another aircraft inbound.
>>>
>>> It just happens!
>>>
>>> Bob - N0DGN
>>>
>>> On 4/16/2010 4:05 PM, James A. (Andy) Moorer wrote:
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> It happened to me and my son a few years ago. It sure got our attention.
>>>>         
>
>   
>>>> It
>>>> is a sight you really don't ever want to see. Since it was during the
>>>> full-power ascent shortly after takeoff, the pilot just turned around
>>>>         
> and
>   
>>>> took it back in.
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody know if the engine can be restarted after a stall? It seems
>>>> like it would be pretty messed up at that point.
>>>>
>>>> If the pilot was an engine short for the landing, I sure didn't notice
>>>>       
>>>>         
>> it.
>>   
>>     
>>>> Modern airplanes must be pretty remarkable machines.
>>>>
>>>> James A. (Andy) Moorer
>>>> www.jamminpower.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> Compressor stalls happen in real life, too. I've never been on an 
>>>>> aircraft
>>>>> when one took place, but I know some folks who have, and they say they
>>>>> were
>>>>> *AWAKE* for the rest of the flight.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>