[MRIC] Minutes for 4-26-08
wb0egr
wb0egr at comcast.net
Tue Apr 29 23:33:16 EDT 2008
Brett,
The point is, just because you did not think it made sense to add
information about other digital modes, does not mean you are correct.
What some others consider to be important and relevant information about
Winlink2000 that has not yet been voiced, was left out because you, not
MRIC, chose to discount what I and the Baltimore County RO had to say
about the matter. Just because a motion was passed at a previous
meeting to accept this or that, does not automatically shut the door to
additional discussion on it or alternatives at future meetings.
Yes, you might disagree with me on this, and you might even say that I
am trying to be argumentative or trying to derail the process (which I
am not), but in reality all I, and for that matter the Baltimore County
RO are trying to do is bring a reality check into play, be reasonable
about what is and what is not affordable when it comes to spending money
especially on high ticket items in these tight budgetary times, and keep
MRIC from appearing to be just another group of "boys with toys" -
especially expensive toys like Winlink2000, and to maintain our credibility.
I personally have nothing against Winlink2000. However, my thirty-five
plus years of experience in amateur radio public service communications
in various parts of the United States has taught me to be fairly
conservative and to only ask for well established technologies to be
embraced by those we serve. Winlink2000 is, in my opinion, still in
it's "toddler stage" of development, and until it reaches its maturity
and becomes an affordable and bulletproof technology it should not
become a recommended technology to the Emergency Managers Association
for full deployment when there are other digital methods of demonstrated
reliability that can be deployed with a significantly less expenditure
of tight monies.
You appear to believe that we should only present the good about a
single technology to the Emergency Managers Association. I and others
believe that we should present the good, and the not-so good and the bad
information to the Emergency Managers Association by using full
disclosure. Hence my insistence on Saturday that you capture not only
my thoughts about the "in an ideal world" as you described it deployment
of Winlink2000, but also others who expressed an opinion that did not
agree with yours. Yes, we could have given you a pie in the sky ideal
concept for deployment of Winlink2000 in our jurisdictions, but to us
that would have been unrealistic and demonstrated not only to the
Emergency Managers Association, but to our Emergency Mangers as well,
our irresponsibility on the matter because we know what is and is not
realistic for RACES to ask for in terms of funding and that the return
on the monies allocated for RACES capital purchases in our jurisdictions
will be real from the get go.
Yes, Winlink2000 can support the exchange of e-mail in the event of an
internet outage in Maryland. However, Winlink2000 is still plagued by
many bugs and e-mail is not always delivered in a timely manner
according to the postings I have seen and continue to see in various
Yahoo Groups for users and supporters of Winlink2000. Winlink2000 has
the potential, I repeat, the potential to be of major benefit to our
served clients and Emergency Management Jurisdictions WHEN it has
matured and become as reliable as other methods of data exchange. Yes,
I know that boaters have been using a commercial version of Winlink2000
for several years now, but that is really their only affordable option
at the moment to stay connected via e-mail. It is NOT our only option
for ensuring inter-jurisdictional communications and data exchange in
times of communication crisis. Hence, we should not put "all of our
apples into one basket" by solely recommending Winlink2000 and ignoring
all other digital methods.
As a final thought in this, please do not think that I am trying to
challenge you or your intent. I do believe that your intent is
correct. However, as the old saying goes, "there is more than one way
to skin a cat" applies to MRIC also. Just because you are the Chairman
does not mean that you are the head of MRIC nor does it mean that you
get to decide which way MRIC will go while you are Chairman. If you do
believe that, then you will be quite disappointed and perhaps even
disillusioned with amateur radio public service communications. As I
have said many, many times before, when someone comes into this arena,
they need to check their ego at the door otherwise there will be an
awful lot of hurt feelings because they will wind up taking comments and
challenges to issues personally, when the ones making the comments and
challenges are not doing so personally.
73,
Pat Scolla, wb0egr
Harford County EC & RO
brettham at aol.com wrote:
> Pat,
>
> I did not add your comments about an alternative digital mode at the
> time I was writing the Winlink plan, because it didn't make any sense
> to add comments about an unapproved mode, to a document about the mode
> we just approved. Shortly thereafter I said I would add your comments
> to the minutes if you like, and I did not receive/hear any subsequent
> comments from you or Joe with regard to this issue, and I could not
> recall exactely what you said earlier. If you want me to try to
> remember what you both said, I will be happy to try, otherwise, please
> tell me what you want me to add to the minutes and I will do so.
>
> I'm sorry if I did not explain this to your satisfaction in the
> previous email.
>
> Brett
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wb0egr <wb0egr at comcast.net>
> To: MRIC at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:22 am
> Subject: Re: [MRIC] Minutes for 4-26-08
>
>
> Brett,
>
> That is why both the Baltimore County RO and I specifically requested
> that you enter into the record our reasons for "not participating" in
> the Winlink2000 "project". Also, I do not recall your asking either
> Joe or I to send you our comments so they could be included in the
> minutes. I only remember your being adament about not including our
> comments in the Winlink2000 section, but being agreeable to put our
> voiced comments into the minutes.
> I will send you my comments to be incorporated into the minutes in a
> timely manner.
>
> 73,
> Pat, wb0egr
>
> brettham at aol.com wrote:
>> Pat,
>>
>> After I said that I would add your comments to the minutes, I did not
> > receive any text from you to be included. If you send it in an email,
>> I will be happy to include your comments in the minutes.
>>
>> Brett
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: wb0egr <wb0egr at comcast.net>
>> To: MRIC at mailman.qth.net
>> Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:35 pm
>> Subject: Re: [MRIC] Minutes for 4-26-08
>>
>>
>> Brett, > > At the MRIC Meeting on April 26, 2008, you indicated to
> the group that > you would enter into the minutes the reasons why both
> the Baltimore > County RO and I stated that we would not be
> participating in the > Winlink2000 "deployment" should the
> recommendation be adopted by the > Maryland Emergency Managers
> Association, and should it ever be funded. > In reading the minutes I
> do not see any mention made as to why the > Harford and Baltimore
> County ROs are not planning to either deploy or > participate in the
> Winlink2000 deployment. Please enter our reasons > into the
> minutes/record and resend them to the MRIC members in a > timely
> manner. > > 73, > Pat Scolla, WB0EGR > Harford County RO & EC > >
> brettham at aol.com wrote: >> All Maryland RACES Officers: >> >> Please
> find below the proposed minutes for the MRIC meeting held this > >
> past Saturday April 26, 2008. Thank you all for attending. We had a >
> > very good turnout of 17 jurisdictions. >> >> Unfortunately we did
> not get as much accomplished as we have at > > previous meetings due
> to the very long debate over motions to reverse > > the actions of the
> previous meeting, and over quorum. Both of which > > failed to pass.
> >> >> We also did not complete our review of the "Recommended Amateur
> Radio > > Capabilities for Maryland Jurisdictions" document, which
> means that > > jurisdictions implementing new Winlink2000 email
> capabilities this > > year to support the Maryland RACES Data Network
> (MRDN) will have no > > guidence material from MRIC. >> >> It was also
> the first time our meeting ran 30 minutes late. I hope > our > next
> meeting is more productive. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Brett Hammond >>
> Chairman, MRIC >> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>
> Maryland RACES Interoperability Committee (MRIC) Meeting Minutes for
> >> April 26, 2008: >> >> >> James Devilbiss (Frederick) hosted the
> meeting at the Frederick EOC. > > Thanks James. Also thanks to Fred
> Bader (Montgomery) for bringing the
>>> projector. >> >> >> The meeting was called to order at 10:30. The
> following ROs (or their >> representative) were in attendance: >> >>
> Allegany - Bill Tucker >> Anne Arundel - Frank Winner >> Baltimore
> County - Joe Krysztoforski >> Baltimore City - Lou Linden >> Caroline
> - >> Carroll - >> Calvert - Les Dickey >> Cecil - Ted Wallace >>
> Charles - >> Dorchester - >> Frederick - Jim Devilbiss >> Garrett - >>
> Harford - Pat Scolla >> Howard - John Wilson >> Kent - Bob Lovell >>
> MEMA - Al FitzSimons >> Montgomery - Fred Bader >> Ocean City >>
> Prince George’s - Dan Blasberg >> Queen Anne’s - Chuck Hodell >>
> Somerset - >> St. Mary’s - Ray Brown >> Talbot - Brett Hammond >>
> Washington - Bob Long >> Wicomico - >> >> The jurisdictions listed
> above with no name, did not send a > > representative. >> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> The
> following agenda was reviewed and approved by unanimous consent, >>
> without objection: >> >> >> Welcome >> Attendance >> Review Agenda >>
> Approval of Minutes >> Updated MD RO Contact List >> COMMEX Admin
> Report >> Update on Yahoo group for file sharing - Fred Bader >>
> Presentation on when to use 40/60/80-meter bands by Chuck Hodel >>
> Lunch >> MRDN Network Architecture >> Existing Winlink Equipment and
> Cost >> MRDN Recommended Equipment List and Cost >> MRDN Technical
> Support Group - Call for volunteers >> EOC Recommended Equipment List
> and Cost >> Next Meeting Agenda >> Adjourn >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Motion
> by Pat (Harford) that we vacate (make null and void) the votes > > for
> Chairman and Winlink2000 recommendations, and any other votes > that >
> occurred at the January MRIC meeting. >> Seconded by Joe (Baltimore
> Co). >> >> Roll call vote was taken: >> >> Abstain - Allegany - Bill
> Tucker >> No - Anne Arundel - Frank Winner >> Yes - Baltimore County -
> Joe Krysztoforski >> No - Baltimore City - Lou Linden >> No - Calvert
> - Les Dickey >> Abstain - Cecil - Ted Wallace >> No - Frederick - Jim
> Devilbiss >> Yes - Harford - Pat Scolla >> No - Howard - John Wilson
> >> No - Kent - Bob Lovell >> No - MEMA - Al FitzSimons >> No -
> Montgomery - Fred Bader >> Yes - Prince George’s - Dan Blasberg >> No
> - Queen Anne’s - Chuck Hodell >> No - St. Mary’s - Ray Brown >> No -
> Talbot - Brett Hammond >> No - Washington - Bob Long >> >> 12 - No >>
> 3 - Yes >> 2 - Abstain >> Motion Failed. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Motion
> by Bob Lovell (Kent) to accept the minutes. Seconded by Pat > >
> (Harford). >> >> Roll call vote was taken: >> >> yes - Allegany - Bill
> Tucker >> yes - Anne Arundel - Frank Winner >> no - Baltimore County -
> Joe Krysztoforski >> yes - Baltimore City - Lou Linden >> yes -
> Calvert - Les Dickey >> yes - Cecil - Ted Wallace >> yes - Frederick -
> Jim Devilbiss >> no - Harford - Pat Scolla >> yes - Howard - John
> Wilson >> yes - Kent - Bob Lovell >> yes - MEMA - Al FitzSimons >> yes
> - Montgomery - Fred Bader >> yes - Prince George’s - Dan Blasberg >>
> yes - Queen Anne’s - Chuck Hodell >> yes - St. Mary’s - Ray Brown >>
> yes - Talbot - Brett Hammond >> yes - Washington - Bob Long >> >> 15
> Yes >> 2 No >> Motion passed. Minutes are accepted. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Dan
> (PG) motions that we request the Maryland Emergency Management > >
> Association to revise our charter to reflect that all interoperability
> > > issues require a 2/3 vote of a quorum, and that a quorum is
> defined > as > 2/3 of the average of the attendence of the previous 3
> meetings. >> Seconded by Pat (Harford). >> >> A roll call vote was
> taken: >> >> Abstain - Allegany - Bill Tucker >> Yes - Anne Arundel -
> Frank Winner >> Yes - Baltimore County - Joe Krysztoforski >> No -
> Baltimore City - Lou Linden >> No - Calvert - Les Dickey >> No - Cecil
> - Ted Wallace >> yes - Frederick - Jim Devilbiss >> Yes - Harford -
> Pat Scolla >> Abstain - Howard - John Wilson >> No - Kent - Bob Lovell
> >> No - MEMA - Al FitzSimons >> No - Montgomery - Fred Bader >> Yes -
> Prince George’s - Dan Blasberg >> No - Queen Anne’s - Chuck Hodell >>
> Yes - St. Mary’s - Ray Brown >> No - Talbot - Brett Hammond >> No -
> Washington - Bob Long >> >> 6 yes >> 9 no >> 2 abstain >> >> Motion
> failed. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> The
> RACES Officer Contact Info was updated, reviewed and accepted by >>
> unanimous consent. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Al
> FitzSimons (MEMA) explained how to properly fill out a > >
> Communications Exercise (COMMEX) Administrative Report to be sent to >
> > MEMA following our monthly drills. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Fred
> Bader (Montgomery) presented and demonstrated the MRIC web site > > he
> created on Yahoo.com for storing our documents. He agreed to > >
> distribute the instructions and links via the MRIC email reflector. >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >>
> There was some discussion on interference on our 80-meter net > >
> frequency, so Dan (PG) agreed to look for new 80-meter frequency for >
> > discussion at our next meeting. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Chuck
> (QA) provided handout material with recommendations on what > > times
> of day to use which band (40/60/80). Chuck also agreed to > > provide
> the material in electronic form. Ray (St. Marys) motions to > > accept
> Chuck's report on propagation with one change: 2KHz to 3KHz. > >
> Seconded by Ted (Cecil). >> Passed. Unanimous voice vote. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> There
> was discussion on the network architecture of the Maryland > RACES >
> Data Network (MRDN) established in the January MRIC meeting, > and
> that > employes Winlink2000 email. Most jurisdictions present >
> expressed a > desire to create a local VHF or UHF Winlink network in >
> their area, > with one or more HF links to provide a fail-safe >
> Internet connection > outside the affected area during a >
> communications outage. Harford and > Baltimore counties indicated they
> > would not be participating. >> >> This information provides guidence
> or a path to move forward with > > deployment of equipment as manpower
> and money permits. A more detailed
>>> report will be distributed separately from these minutes. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> MRIC
> discussed the "Recommended Amateur Radio Capabilities for > > Maryland
> Jurisdictions" document distributed earlier for review. There > > was
> much discussion and debate about the Appendix providing guidance > >
> material on what equipment is recommended for Winlink and voice > >
> operations. The debate was not focused on what equipment to recommend,
> > > but on whether to recommend specific equipment (or comparable), or
> > not > to list any specific equipment by name at all. >> >> Motion
> made by Ted (Cecil) to table discussion on Recommended Amateur >>
> Radio Capabilities document. Seconded Dan (PG). >> Motion passed by
> unanimous voice vote. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >>
> Volunteers were solicited to provide Technical Support to those > >
> attempting to establish a Winlink station for the MRDN. Dan (PG) and >
> > Ray (St. Marys) volunteered. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Lou
> (Baltimore City) motioned to change the November meeting date > from >
> Nov 15 to Nov 22, 2008. Seconded Dan (PG). >> >> 10 yes. >> 0 no. >>
> >> Please update your schedules. The November 22, 2008 meeting is > >
> currently scheduled for QA EOC in Centerville. If you have any > >
> objections to the location, please express them now. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Pat
> (Harford) will send email about operating field day from the EOC >>
> for those interested. >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> The
> following Agenda was proposed by the group for the November MRIC >>
> meeting: >> >> Discussion on HF net time-of-day per band >> Discussion
> on HF Net schedule >> Discussion on whether or not to use 60-meters.
> >> Discuss Recommended Amateur Radio Capabilities document >> Winlink
> Frequency List - Ray >> 80 meter frequency - Dan >> Elections
> (nominations via email in advance or at Nov mtg) >> Update Freq list
> >> 2009 Meeting Schedule >> Discussion on interoperability drills
> (including simplex) >> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Dan
> (PG) motioned to adjourn, James (Frederick) seconded. Motioned > >
> passed at 15:30. >> >> -------------- end of minutes ---------------
> >> ______________________________________________________________ >>
> This email list is for the use of RACES Officers and Emergency > >
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> > Committee (MRIC) of the Maryland Emergency Management Association >
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> ______________________________________________________________ > This
> email list is for the use of RACES Officers and Emergency > Managers.
> Only email related to the Maryland RACES Interoperability > Committee
> (MRIC) of the Maryland Emergency Management Association > should be
> sent to this email reflector list. All emails must be in > plain text
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>> ______________________________________________________________
>> This email list is for the use of RACES Officers and Emergency >
> Managers. Only email related to the Maryland RACES Interoperability >
> Committee (MRIC) of the Maryland Emergency Management Association >
> should be sent to this email reflector list. All emails must be in >
> plain text format (no HTML).
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>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> This email list is for the use of RACES Officers and Emergency
> Managers. Only email related to the Maryland RACES Interoperability
> Committee (MRIC) of the Maryland Emergency Management Association
> should be sent to this email reflector list. All emails must be in
> plain text format (no HTML).
> MRIC mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/mric
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmmain.htm
> Post: mailto:MRIC at mailman.qth.net
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> This email list is for the use of RACES Officers and Emergency
> Managers. Only email related to the Maryland RACES Interoperability
> Committee (MRIC) of the Maryland Emergency Management Association
> should be sent to this email reflector list. All emails must be in
> plain text format (no HTML).
> MRIC mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/mric
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmmain.htm
> Post: mailto:MRIC at mailman.qth.net
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