[Milsurplus] Blood n Guts

[Peter Gottlieb]

Hmmm, I mentioned talking on the phone, not drinking or texting.

Many studies disagree that talking on the phone adds significant risk.  Yet, 
some drivers just can't handle it at all.

What I'm saying is that your position that it should result in the same penalty 
as drinking is inconsistent with your strong objection to laws which overrule 
our personal choice, especially when it is far from clear the law would be the 
best choice for everyone.

Whose opinion do you use to make laws?

I know I certainly object to the regulations calling for the destruction of 
modern surplus green radio gear.  Someone made the call that the risk of it 
being obtained by someone who would harm us (or perhaps that happening on their 
watch and being blamed for it by the opposition party) is more valuable than the 
benefit to people like us who played a part paying for it!



On 11/13/2013 10:31 PM, J. Forster wrote:
> Do you really not understand?
>
> Drinking, texting etc while driving endangers OTHERS. That is impermissable.
>
> That is the difference.
>
> -John
>
> =====================
>
>
>
>
>> I'm not even sure how it's possible to text while driving.  Talking on the
>> phone
>> is alright for many people, but seemingly impossible for others.
>>
>> Ok, so now we have you calling for more of a nanny state, a government
>> which
>> you've said can't make the best decisions for people...
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/13/2013 9:59 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>>> I have zero tolerance for driving drunk, doped up, talking on cells, and
>>> while texting.
>>>
>>> Those things clearly put OTHERS at risk.
>>>
>>> First offense and you loose the car for 180 days...   no exceptions.
>>> PERIOD.
>>>
>>> -John
>>>
>>> =====================
>>>
>>>
>>>> I agree about speed enforcement being unnecessarily aggressive.  It
>>>> many
>>>> locations it has turned into a revenue source rather than a public
>>>> safety
>>>> function.  You can read the stories all the time of people getting
>>>> ticketed for
>>>> even a MPH over the limit (and many of us including me have our own
>>>> stories).
>>>> That's one side of it.  On the other side how would *you* like to go
>>>> clean
>>>> up
>>>> body parts when someone is half in the bag and loses control and
>>>> wrecks?
>>>> Cops
>>>> and firefighters may seem tough but they are human and it affects you
>>>> no
>>>> matter
>>>> your position.
>>>>
>>>> So, you want "reasonable?"  How would you define that, exactly?
>>>>
>>>> One thing that could be done is to outlaw fines for speeding, instead
>>>> having
>>>> drivers get something like the points against their license, where if
>>>> they
>>>> get
>>>> too many they could get it suspended, etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/13/2013 9:40 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>>>>>> Sure, so long as it doesn't affect others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why have speed limits?  Or any traffic laws for that matter?
>>>>> You answer your own question. Speeding, as in going 100 MPH in a
>>>>> residential area DOES affect others.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So yeah, I agree... if it absolutely affects nobody else, have at it
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> do what you want.
>>>>> But they enforce doiung 35 in a 30 zone even on an empty road, even if
>>>>> it
>>>>> puts nobody at risk, just because a professional nanny want it that
>>>>> way.
>>>>>
>>>>> -John
>>>>>
>>>>> ========================
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/13/2013 11:09 AM, J. Forster wrote:
>>>>>>> On non-technical matters, I don't claim to 'know best'. I believe
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> should have the freedom to make up their own minds, not to be
>>>>>>> dictated
>>>>>>> to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> =================
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree with your assessment, however, on all of the reflectors
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> share, it seems you always are the one that knows "best" and has to
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> last word. Like the saying goes - "a legend in his own mind".
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike B. Feher, N4FS
>>>>>>>> 89 Arnold Blvd.
>>>>>>>> Howell, NJ, 07731
>>>>>>>> 732-886-5960
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: milsurplus-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>>> [mailto:milsurplus-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of J. Forster
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:54 AM
>>>>>>>> To: whitaker at ieee.org
>>>>>>>> Cc: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Blood n Guts
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My objection is not to seat belts per se. It is to government
>>>>>>>> mandating
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seat belts are a good idea. I had and used 3-point ones long before
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> were mandated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, I DO object to to the principle that the 'government knows
>>>>>>>> best'...
>>>>>>>> the out-of-control nanny state. The government obviously does not
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> is best for everybody.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Central planning has been a dismal failure whereever and whenever
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> been tried. And the planners' excuse is always 'we didn't have
>>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>> control'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As the US becomes more socialist and is in decline, China and
>>>>>>>> Russia
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> abandoning a failed system, and are thriving.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> =====================
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> de WB2CPN
>>>>>>>>> Just before I left the USAF in 1966 the rule was this:
>>>>>>>>> If you use your personal vehicle at Government expense, it had to
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> seat belts installed.  TDY travel.
>>>>>>>>> One one occasion I'm sure that seat belts saved my butt.
>>>>>>>>> In a near collision it kept me in control of the vehicle.
>>>>>>>>> Another time I helped remove a dead driver from a car that was
>>>>>>>>> whacked
>>>>>>>>> in an accident.  The seat belt was neatly folded under the seat.
>>>>>>>>> Clete
>>>>>>>>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2013 10:48 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> No, but I DO think that the government MANDATING them is. It
>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> be a personal choice. Same for an ever growing myriad of other
>>>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I like the taste of trans-fat or salt or sugar, it's none of
>>>>>>>>>> anybodies'
>>>>>>>>>> business but mine.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Virtually every government mandate is another assaullt on
>>>>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>>>> liberty.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As the current debacles prove, the government does NOT 'know
>>>>>>>>>> best'.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> YMWV,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -John
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ==========
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying seat belts are a bad thing?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2013 9:05 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hardly a surprise because seat belts were not required until
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> than a decade after Patton was killed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The Progressive bastion of WI as first
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_legislation#United_States
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -John
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ======================
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to the cited article no seat belts in the General's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> car
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (A Cadillac BTW) front or back....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ********
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 4:44 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember that back then seat belt use wasn't very common.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> car might not have even had them installed!  And even these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> days
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in limos and cabs most people don't bother.  He was just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlucky.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2013 2:19 PM, mac wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent article!  If he had only been wearing his seat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> belt.........
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis D.  W7QHO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glendale, CA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *******************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 11, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Joe Connor wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Glen:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>          Here's an interesting article on Patton's accident
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsequent medical treatment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://pattonthirdarmy.com/Heildelbergtrippages/Patton%20Death%
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20by%20MD.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Connor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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