[Milsurplus] OT: Re: USS Stewart vandalized

Sun Feb 3 16:52:34 EST 2013

I fully expect the NEXT 'red line' is going to be 1 MegaTon.

-John

================

> Unfortunately, with Iran it seems we're going to find out sooner rather
> than later.
>
> Peter
>
> On 2/3/2013 3:31 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>> Well, there's the rub as Shakespear said.
>>
>> I am unconvinced, as is Iran apparently, that the US would take any
>> meaningful action, other than moving the goal posts, if a red line were
>> crossed.
>>
>> YMMV a lot,
>>
>> -John
>>
>> =================
>>
>>
>>> Some of these countries, like Iran and China, that think they can tweak
>>> Uncle Sam's nose, had best think carefully before they decide to do
>>> something terrible, like send over a nuke or crash our power grid
>>> through
>>> a computer virus.
>>>
>>> There are still 50 Peacekeeper Missiles, each with 10 RV's that can be
>>> back on line easily. That's 500 750 KT warheads. If Nuclear Warheads
>>> are not your cup of tea, they can easily be replaced with conventional
>>> warheads.
>>>
>>> Of course, that assumes we have a Government with the stones to use
>>> them.
>>>
>>> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 12:51 PM, J. Forster <jfor at quikus.com> wrote:
>>>>> There is scant evidence that what you say is true.  Speak to
>>>>> historians
>>>>> and they
>>>>> will tell you that many things are actually better now than they were
>>>>> in
>>>>> the past.
>>>> History is written by the victors, which really means it is biased to
>>>> those currently in power. I don't trust historians to separate their
>>>> political biases from their work. There are accepted things about WW
>>>> II
>>>> history that are just not true.
>>>>
>>>>> You say that these kids do not know the difference between good and
>>>>> bad?
>>>>> But what about the numerous stories of group members who did
>>>>> something
>>>>> bad and were
>>>>> punished in an appropriate way and learned? Maybe these kids didn't
>>>>> do
>>>>> something
>>>>> like that before, maybe alcohol was involved (like the drunken
>>>>> sailors).
>>>>> I wouldn't be so quick to condemn society with such little evidence.
>>>> Damaging drywall in one's own house is petty compared to trashing
>>>> other
>>>> people's.
>>>>
>>>> There is certainly as much booze, far more drugs, and a lot more
>>>> trashing
>>>> of places than even 20 years ago. This is partly as a result of
>>>> larger,
>>>> and hence more destructive, 'flash mobs', due to social media.
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not excusing what they did but rather just saying that there is
>>>>> little that can be
>>>>> concluded about the greater state of affairs from this one incident.
>>>> Perhaps so, but the frequency of such incidents is growing due to
>>>> copycats.
>>>>
>>>>> Social unrest?  What, right now?  What about the protests of the
>>>>> 60's?
>>>>> The
>>>>> Vietnam war protests, the civil rights marches?  I don't see anything
>>>>> now
>>>>> that
>>>>> matches those times!  The US will not go out like Rome, it will be
>>>>> around
>>>>> (and strong) for a very long time.
>>>> And if Iran puts an atomic weapon in a cargo container and ships it
>>>> into
>>>> NYC?
>>>>
>>>>> Very few say that military force is in general bad.  A massive
>>>>> majority
>>>>> recognize the need for a competent, professional, strong military.
>>>>> But
>>>>> you will
>>>>> see legitimate debate about how that military should be used, how
>>>>> much
>>>>> should be
>>>>> spent on it, and how to deal with the massive inefficiencies in
>>>>> spending
>>>>> that
>>>>> are occurring.   And what's this about "having a gun is bad?"  Or is
>>>>> the
>>>>> very
>>>>> topic taboo to even bring up?  Every freedom has limits and
>>>>> responsibilities!
>>>>> Just like having a car.
>>>>>
>>>>> That ship is a museum, and yes, a lot of people really do care. Like
>>>>> other
>>>>> museums, it may need a decent alarm system though.
>>>> Probably so.
>>>>
>>>>> You want to talk about preservation?  It is the military itself which
>>>>> is
>>>>> now
>>>>> destroying almost all electronics gear rather than allowing it to go
>>>>> out
>>>>> on the
>>>>> surplus market.  Look at MARS even... used to be that interesting
>>>>> gear
>>>>> was
>>>>> just
>>>>> given out for experimentation and modification, attracting a lot of
>>>>> bright
>>>>> minds. Now, despite those regulations still saying stuff is given
>>>>> out,
>>>>> nothing
>>>>> really is anymore.  They won't even give out small gensets to allow
>>>>> stations to
>>>>> operate during power outages!  I've tried going to my representatives
>>>>> and
>>>>> they
>>>>> all listen and are sympathetic but it will take more than a lone
>>>>> voice
>>>>> here and
>>>>> there to make anything happen.
>>>> WW II Mil gear could easily be re-purposed to other uses, partly
>>>> because
>>>> is was far less complex and specialized than today, and partly because
>>>> it
>>>> used construction techniques that were readily accessible. Not any
>>>> more,
>>>> because so much is in silicon or SW. There is also far less being
>>>> produced.
>>>>
>>>> Compare the quantities of modern radios built to WW II quantities...
>>>> 1
>>>> to
>>>> 100 maybe?
>>>>
>>>> As to the punks, I think they should be sentenced to clean up and
>>>> restore
>>>> everything they damaged, with sentence to run until that cleanup is
>>>> finished. No parole.
>>>>
>>>> YMMV,
>>>>
>>>> -John
>>>> ================
>>>>
>>>>> To use your words, "does anyone give a damn" anymore?
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter
>>>>
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