[Lowfer] Morning lowfers

Fri Jan 3 18:05:23 EST 2014

There's gotta be a huge difference in skin depth into the soil between 
the BC band and 60 kHz.

JA

On 1/3/2014 5:29 PM, jrusgrove at comcast.net wrote:
> Bob
>
> We're talking about 60 kHz here ... not the broadcast band. Those graphs
> are signal only ... noise floor doesn't enter into it. The graphs show
> equal signal strength to all measurement locations. One would then
> conclude that frozen ground makes no difference at 60 kHz.
>
> The SNR graphs http://www.w1vd.com/WWVBwintersummer.jpg do show an
> advantage in winter ... apparently from lower noise.
>
> Jay
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Raide" <rjraide at hotmail.com>
> To: "Bob Raide" <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 4:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] Morning lowfers
>
>
>> Jay;
>> That surprises me.  Not sure if it's the noise floor moving or what.
>> Any freq gains from conductivity as that's the way lower freqs
>> propagate.  I will say that some areas like here in the Finger Lakes
>> get a bigger difference in conductivity from cold to warm WX.   I have
>> never taken measurements in your area but am told conductivity is
>> somewhat poor.  Do you notice any increase in BC station field
>> strength on an s meter between cold and warm weather?   In this region
>> it changes drastically but there maybe less difference in yours
>> although it is known that all areas change somewhat.  It is standard
>> procedure to take field strength measurements in cooler weather to be
>> fair to parties putting in a new or modified app.  If joint
>> measurements are called for that is usually skedualed in cooler
>> weather like March or October.
>> If you were to look at Part 73/74 of the rules under AM allocations
>> you will see conductivity will help a station on 540 and on 1600 just
>> as much and service contours are calculated the same way for the high
>> and low freqs.  Only difference is skywave calculations.  There is a
>> set of calculations for high and low freqs within the BC AM band.
>>
>>> From: jrusgrove at comcast.net
>>> To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
>>> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 16:19:34 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] Morning lowfers
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> >All freq get help from the frozen ground and the deeper the frost in
>>> the ground
>>>
>>> The plots from WWVB (60 kHz) winter and summer do not bear this out :
>>>
>>> http://www.w1vd.com/WWVBwintersummersig.jpg
>>>
>>> Do you have information to the contrary in the 60 kHz range?
>>>
>>> Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2  WG2XRS/2
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Raide" <rjraide at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "Bob Raide" <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 4:10 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] Morning lowfers
>>>
>>>
>>> > It certainly helps ground conductivity.  All freq get help from the
>>> frozen ground and the > deeper
>>> > the frost in the ground and colder it becomes the better the
>>> conductivity.  I have taken > extensive
>>> > measurements in cold and warm weather- sometimes not just playing
>>> but for AM BC allocation > work.
>>> > It is amazing to see how the conductivity sky rockets during very
>>> cold weather.  The lower HF
>>> > freqs even get a kick in the ass with better skywave with higher
>>> conductivity.
>>> > I am trying to find someone interested on the northern west coast
>>> to try for some groundwave
>>> > testing.  I have asked Ve7BDQ if he was interested and am waiting
>>> his reply.  I think a cross
>>> > country groundwave signal is possible over the right route.  If the
>>> signal transverses some > parts
>>> > of the great lakes and gets into N Dakota it will scream towards
>>> the coast as N Dakota this > time
>>> > of year is 40 to 50 conductivity.  I would try to drop to the
>>> lowest freq that is > clear-hopefully
>>> > 69-70 kHz for the test.  Lower the better!
>>> >
>>> >> From: listread at lwca.org
>>> >> To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
>>> >> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 12:28:19 -0600
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] Morning lowfers
>>> >>
>>> >> >>> If it makes you feel better to know-it was 2 below here this
>>> morning
>>> >>
>>> >> They're saying we can expect that here on Monday night, so I can only
>>> >> imagine what that next batch of air is going to be like for you
>>> guys up
>>> >> north!  It'd be interesting to see if that enhances groundwave at
>>> LF the way
>>> >> it sometimes appears to do in the AM broadcast band.
>>> >>
>>> >> Wish I had a vehicle that would readily accept a roof-mounted
>>> whip.  There's
>>> >> a spot in our city park that's almost as quiet electrically as the
>>> farm, but
>>> >> under these conditions I really don't want to have to get out of
>>> the car
>>> >> long enough to set up the collapsible flagpole that I currently
>>> have for a
>>> >> portable antenna mount.  (Plus, it draws some mighty suspicious
>>> stares from
>>> >> passersby.)
>>> >>
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