[Lowfer] Morning lowfers

jrusgrove at comcast.net jrusgrove at comcast.net
Fri Jan 3 17:29:12 EST 2014 

Bob

We're talking about 60 kHz here ... not the broadcast band. Those graphs are signal only ... noise 
floor doesn't enter into it. The graphs show equal signal strength to all measurement locations. One 
would then conclude that frozen ground makes no difference at 60 kHz.

The SNR graphs http://www.w1vd.com/WWVBwintersummer.jpg do show an advantage in winter ... 
apparently from lower noise.

Jay


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Raide" <rjraide at hotmail.com>
To: "Bob Raide" <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Lowfer] Morning lowfers


> Jay;
> That surprises me.  Not sure if it's the noise floor moving or what.  Any freq gains from 
> conductivity as that's the way lower freqs propagate.  I will say that some areas like here in the 
> Finger Lakes get a bigger difference in conductivity from cold to warm WX.   I have never taken 
> measurements in your area but am told conductivity is somewhat poor.  Do you notice any increase 
> in BC station field strength on an s meter between cold and warm weather?   In this region it 
> changes drastically but there maybe less difference in yours although it is known that all areas 
> change somewhat.  It is standard procedure to take field strength measurements in cooler weather 
> to be fair to parties putting in a new or modified app.  If joint measurements are called for that 
> is usually skedualed in cooler weather like March or October.
> If you were to look at Part 73/74 of the rules under AM allocations you will see conductivity will 
> help a station on 540 and on 1600 just as much and service contours are calculated the same way 
> for the high and low freqs.  Only difference is skywave calculations.  There is a set of 
> calculations for high and low freqs within the BC AM band.
>
>> From: jrusgrove at comcast.net
>> To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
>> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 16:19:34 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] Morning lowfers
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> >All freq get help from the frozen ground and the deeper the frost in the ground
>>
>> The plots from WWVB (60 kHz) winter and summer do not bear this out :
>>
>> http://www.w1vd.com/WWVBwintersummersig.jpg
>>
>> Do you have information to the contrary in the 60 kHz range?
>>
>> Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2  WG2XRS/2
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Bob Raide" <rjraide at hotmail.com>
>> To: "Bob Raide" <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 4:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] Morning lowfers
>>
>>
>> > It certainly helps ground conductivity.  All freq get help from the frozen ground and the 
>> > deeper
>> > the frost in the ground and colder it becomes the better the conductivity.  I have taken 
>> > extensive
>> > measurements in cold and warm weather- sometimes not just playing but for AM BC allocation 
>> > work.
>> > It is amazing to see how the conductivity sky rockets during very cold weather.  The lower HF
>> > freqs even get a kick in the ass with better skywave with higher conductivity.
>> > I am trying to find someone interested on the northern west coast to try for some groundwave
>> > testing.  I have asked Ve7BDQ if he was interested and am waiting his reply.  I think a cross
>> > country groundwave signal is possible over the right route.  If the signal transverses some 
>> > parts
>> > of the great lakes and gets into N Dakota it will scream towards the coast as N Dakota this 
>> > time
>> > of year is 40 to 50 conductivity.  I would try to drop to the lowest freq that is 
>> > clear-hopefully
>> > 69-70 kHz for the test.  Lower the better!
>> >
>> >> From: listread at lwca.org
>> >> To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
>> >> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 12:28:19 -0600
>> >> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] Morning lowfers
>> >>
>> >> >>> If it makes you feel better to know-it was 2 below here this morning
>> >>
>> >> They're saying we can expect that here on Monday night, so I can only
>> >> imagine what that next batch of air is going to be like for you guys up
>> >> north!  It'd be interesting to see if that enhances groundwave at LF the way
>> >> it sometimes appears to do in the AM broadcast band.
>> >>
>> >> Wish I had a vehicle that would readily accept a roof-mounted whip.  There's
>> >> a spot in our city park that's almost as quiet electrically as the farm, but
>> >> under these conditions I really don't want to have to get out of the car
>> >> long enough to set up the collapsible flagpole that I currently have for a
>> >> portable antenna mount.  (Plus, it draws some mighty suspicious stares from
>> >> passersby.)
>> >>
>> >> ______________________________________________________________
>> >> Lowfer mailing list
>> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
>> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> >> Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
>> >> Post must be less than 50KB total for message plus attachment!
>> >>
>> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > Lowfer mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
>> > Post must be less than 50KB total for message plus attachment!
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Lowfer mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
>> Post must be less than 50KB total for message plus attachment!
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Lowfer mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> Post must be less than 50KB total for message plus attachment!
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

More information about the Lowfer mailing list