[Heathkit] question from a non-Ham
wolfbob
wolfbob at csnsys.com
Sun Jul 2 01:55:26 EDT 2006
I fully agree with Bob. Today things are a mess. There are
some small indies trying to do it right, but they are very
hard to find and if and when they do find some talent it is
snatched away by the big bucks and back to lousy audio.
I have found some good sounding CDs however. Not too many..
My current favorite is "The Dave Brubeck Quartet at Carnegie
Hall". The remastering is exemplatory so Sony does
occasionally make a mistake and do it right. Of course
Columbia did the original in 1963, but at least Sony didn't
destroy it. Great talent and great audio.
WBob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert & Linda McGraw K4TAX" <RMcGraw at Blomand.Net>
To: <heathkit at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Heathkit] question from a non-Ham
> Duane mentions RCA Studio B in Nashville. They were on
> 17th Ave So. That brings back memories as I spent 15
> years across the block at CBS studios on 16th Ave So.
> Specifically, the Quonset hut built by Owen Bradley in
> Nashville. Some years after being recorded and after the
> fact, we pulled a 1/2" master 3 track 15 IPS analog tape
> out of the vault and was playing it. Several "current"
> musicians had gathered in the studio prior to an upcoming
> session. Comments like, "man how did you get such
> fantastic sound?" were heard around the room. I just
> smiled and went on about my work.
>
> Well the formula is quite simple, all the musicians were
> in the room playing at the same time, listening to each
> other without benefit of headphones, and it was recorded
> in true stereo, Left, Center, and Right, typical of 3
> track fashion. Recording groups like Flatt and Scruggs
> required a total of 3 or maybe 4 microphones. One for the
> vocals, one for the instruments, and one for the upright
> bass and one for the "room". As each instrument took a
> lead, the player simply stepped into the mike and picked
> and then stepped back. Same for the vocals. The
> recording engineer would make only minor adjustments to
> levels and EQ settings. The "band" made the real
> adjustments acoustically. As to a drum kit, 3 mikes was
> the norm in those days.
>
> Well in later years, on one session I did have a good
> chuckle with one group, one producer, and one drummer.
> After it was over, I smiled all the way to the bank. But
> in the mean time, I finally got them happy with 18 mikes
> on the drum kit alone, being top toms (3), bottom toms (3)
> , top snare (2), bottom snare (1), left kick (1), right
> kick(1), top hat (2), crash left (2), crash right (2) and
> finally 1 overhead. There were 4 mikes on Edgar Winters
> Fender pre CBS tube type Twin Reverb guitar amp that was
> cranked to the max, and 3 mikes on brother Johnny's
> vocals. Each was in a isolation booth. Interestingly,
> the Koss headphones on the drummers head finally quit
> working when they literally produced smoke while on his
> head! How loud were the phones? I never bothered to
> measure. In one case after a session, I did stick a B & K
> sound level meter between the earpieces and measured 140
> dB SPL, average A weighted. Deaf? You bet. Pain, you
> bet.
>
> Today, we listen to music composed of 9 billion tracks of
> overdubs, digitally recorded and compressed, processed,
> EQ'd, edited, pitch shifted because no one can actually
> play or sing on pitch, de-S'ed, de- popped, gated and it
> is all recorded mostly in boring mono. It is then remixed
> multiple times to fake stereo with more effects added and
> we call it great. They actually give Grammy's for this
> crap. Until you've stood in a studio and listened to a 21
> piece band actually blow, you don't have a clue. I've been
> there and done that. It's great. The largest session I
> ever worked had 31 musicians in the studio at one time.
> That was a Kris Kristofferson written song, recorded by
> Ray Price on analog 4 track. Don Law was the producer,
> Cam Mullins was the arranger. Grady Martin played lead
> guitar. Listen to it, it is real music.
>
> And yes, due to age my hearing is diminished, but not
> diminished due to loud. I've always said that it is easy
> to be loud as it only takes money. To be good, well that's
> another chapter in the book that few will ever attain.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duane Fischer W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
> To: "wolfbob" <wolfbob at csnsys.com>; <k4oah at mindspring.com>
> Cc: <heathkit at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 9:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Heathkit] question from a non-Ham
>
>
>> You tell them Bob! (This man knows his audio!). Put up a
>> pair of James B. Lansing Century L-100 and feed them 35
>> watts pure continuous RMS and something recorded in the
>> RCA Nashville studio B and you will have all the highs
>> your neighbor's dogs can stand and enough clean bass to
>> vibrate the dirt out of your carpeting! "Good" speakers
>> and amplifiers do not need a lot of power to be
>> efficient.
>>
>> Bob I can still hear a Flea break wind at a thousand
>> yards, a cat fight ten houses down the street and hear
>> down to 32 Hz. I also spent thirty years on stage, but
>> earplugs can do great things for performers, if they
>> bother to use them!
>>
>> Duane w8DBF
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "wolfbob" <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
>> To: <k4oah at mindspring.com>
>> Cc: <heathkit at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 5:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Heathkit] question from a non-Ham
>>
>>
>>> I'm not too sure that there are any that can hear
>>> anything anymore. The youth seem to run everything at
>>> 115dB and distorted wiping out any hearing they were
>>> born with and we old farts cant hear much over 10K
>>> anymore. I am now specializing in trying to get clean
>>> bass...another end of the spectrum that is being
>>> ruined...but once you find a reproducer that can deliver
>>> and a source that has not already been clobbered, it
>>> sure sounds neat...
>>>
>>> WBob
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Garey Barrell" <k4oah at mindspring.com>
>>> Cc: <heathkit at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Heathkit] question from a non-Ham
>>>
>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, the ones who CAN hear the difference,
>>>> have nothing to compare it against, since the "music"
>>>> they listen to is _performed_ with intentional
>>>> distortion, including voices. That is, at least those
>>>> who haven't already killed the high frequency response
>>>> of their ears with jet engine level sounds at concerts!
>>>>
>>>> Those of us who remember what "real" instruments sound
>>>> like can't hear the overtones that make them "real"
>>>> anymore, due to advancing age.
>>>>
>>>> All in all, a win-win situation for all concerned!
>>>>
>>>> 73, Garey - K4OAH
>>>> Atlanta
>>>>
>>>> Drake 2-B, 4-B & C-Line Service Data
>>>> <http://www.k4oah.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jim Brannigan wrote:
>>>>> For many yearsI have had a better than average Hi-FI
>>>>> set up and have a pretty good ear for music.
>>>>> I've listened to songs on the kids iPod Nano and am
>>>>> amazed at the sound quality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> PS get your license and join the fun!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>> But it's not an isolated sign in traditional
>>>>>> hobbies. Example: I have been interested in High
>>>>>> Fidelity audio for as long as that of radio. Building
>>>>>> kits of amplifiers, tuners, equalizers, both tube &
>>>>>> solid state were (are) a long-time passion. But
>>>>>> kit-companies like Heath and Dynaco have long since
>>>>>> disappeared.
>>>>>> And 20-somethings I am friendly with have NO
>>>>>> conception of hi-fi reproduction. None! They think
>>>>>> their iPod and/or MP-3s played on that Best Buy
>>>>>> abomination are the best that can be achieved in
>>>>>> musical reproduction!
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF ** For
>>>> Assistance: dfischer at usol.com ** $$ See the
>>>> vintage area on the HCI web site - http://www.w9wze.org
>>>> $$ Heathkit mailing list
>>>> Heathkit at mailman.qth.net
>>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/heathkit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF ** For
>>> Assistance: dfischer at usol.com ** $$ See the
>>> vintage area on the HCI web site - http://www.w9wze.org
>>> $$ Heathkit mailing list
>>> Heathkit at mailman.qth.net
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/heathkit
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF ** For
>> Assistance: dfischer at usol.com ** $$ See the
>> vintage area on the HCI web site - http://www.w9wze.org
>> $$ Heathkit mailing list
>> Heathkit at mailman.qth.net
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/heathkit
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Assistance: dfischer at usol.com ** $$ See the
> vintage area on the HCI web site - http://www.w9wze.org $$
> Heathkit mailing list
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