[FADCA] RE: FADCA Digest, Vol 44, Issue 10
Wayne Burkett Sr.
ka1vrf at bellsouth.net
Sun Sep 30 10:16:00 EDT 2007
Greetings all:
I am happy to see this dialog concerning the packet systems both in our
region and throughout the world.
As most of you know, I have stepped up to the plate and continued the work
(along with others, especially
Charlie, K4BGG) of what Bill, N4XEO(SK) had been working on for years here
on the Treasure Coast. I have
Started from the ground floor and along with guidance from Charlie, Bud,
Bob(K2BJG) and others and I am learning as much as I can about the technical
side of things and although I have always been a system user it has been
rewarding
And educational to say the least. We are currently involved in developing a
packet system out of St Lucie County (w4SLC)
That I am hoping will be part of a hub here on the treasure coast. Charlie
has worked very hard with me to develop a system that will do what the USERS
would like to have and I feel that this is important, no matter what
protocol is being used. The W4SLC system will be using the FPAC protocol and
will include the BBS, Node, Dxcluster, APRS gateway, Winlink etc.
I feel that Charlie has guided this system and given me what I have wanted
for this system. Yes, there are still some things that need some work, which
is not only on our end here but also has to do with the upgrading of other
systems.
In the area, we have gone from 0 amateurs using packet to over 12 user
currently on the W4SLC system. Charlie is working with Bernard to get about
3 issues resolved with the BBS such as system lock up, dropping the connect
during a message
Transfer, etc.
Now as far as the Indian River County system is concerned. Due to how
we are setting up the W4SLC system to work, and the ability to link the 2
systems up, I will be using the current system using Flexnet protocol for a
number of reasons. First of all and most important is, I feel, that we need
to give the end users something to compare. I have a feeling that most will
like the ability of being able to access other systems on the node list with
ease. There are those out here, myself included, who like to run the systems
and to see how other nodes, BBSs operate and also have the ability to
keyboard with other hams throughout the world thru these systems. At this
point, the FPAC protocol has limited accessibility at this point. Also, in
working with Bob, K2BJG, I have the understanding that there maybe another
way to get emails out into the world. Also in using the Flexnet protocol in
Indian River County I will be able to also link in other venues including
Winlink, SEDAN. DXcluster, APRS etc. Between the 2 counties, I am planning
on having an all around packet network that all will be able to play in the
same sandbox with each other. Pretty soon we will also be working with the
DSTAR side of things which will open up another world of packet radio.
As a member of FADCA and District 3 coordinator, I feel that it is my
responsibility to promote all of the digital venues out here and hopefully
coordinate the availability of these venues in as many areas as possible. I
am not literate
In the technical side of things (although with Charlie's help I am slowly
moving towards that direction). As Bill, N4XEO told me once that he really
did not know much about the user side of things because he was deeply
involved with the techy side of it and know that I have been more involved,
that statement gave me a lot more respect for him and those who have the
knowledge and most importantly the time to put in to the development of all
systems. We need to listen to what the users would like to be ability to do
with these systems along with the primary goal of providing reliable venues
for emergency communications. We have come a long way on the FPAC side of
things by making it easier for
Packeteers to use, by eliminating the need to enter the telephone exchange
info every time one wanted to get anywhere.
I personally what to thank everyone who is helping to keep Packet radio
alive and I know in my area it is on a rebound and will get better as time
goes on.
73 de Wayne
KA1VRF
Vero Beach, Fl.
-----Original Message-----
From: fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of fadca-request at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 8:54 AM
To: fadca at mailman.qth.net
Subject: FADCA Digest, Vol 44, Issue 10
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report) (bud Thompson)
2. RE: Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report) (Rick Muething)
3. RE: Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report) (Ray Cook)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:12:58 -0400
From: "bud Thompson" <budt at cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
To: "Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association"
<fadca at mailman.qth.net>, "Jerald DeLong KD4YAL"
<kd4yal at tampabay.rr.com>
Cc: 'Dave N4GMU' <n4gmu at bellsouth.net>, k4gbb at embarqmail.com, 'Paul
Kronenwetter' <n2kiq at arrl.net>
Message-ID: <004a01c80352$e6d3a210$687ba8c0 at COMPAQ>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Jerry - So far as I can I was the only person to respond at all with
comments to your original note:
Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode
and so far as I can tell you were the only person to respond to my
report which I re-titled
Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
So, in the overall scheme of things there may not be anyone on the
FADCA list other than the two of us who has enough interest to even
comment. That is valid reason for neither of us to spend much time on
this thread if you are bailing out. My interest is not in convincing
you to do something you do not want to do.
My interest is in building a local packet network for anyone who cares
to use the WL2K SYSTEM for e-mail for EMCOMMs. Local in my case is
FADCA District #5 covering five counties in E Central Florida. In the
process anyone who can get on packet can use the network for anything
they want to. We have two County EOCs and five City EOCs on the
network 24/7 using WL2K clientwear and providing TelPac Gateways so
there is valid and rewarding reason for me to continue - in addition
to my being retired - what else would I do with my time but bug K4GBB
with Linux stuff? (When Linux /FPAC gets stable I'll have to find
something else to bug Charlie with.)
Simply providing SMTP mail using ham radio to get to an internet
server does not meet my requirement as the WL2K is a SYSTEM (operative
word) that we have been promoting around the Land. To be sure, it
has caught on in other places more than in Florida! If the local
network can link to others in the state by RF (we now go into District
7 to the north by RF and District 3 via internet in the south) - good
deal - but they will have to be COMPATIBLE. That is why I have no
interest in moving away from the legacy ROSE/FPAC protocol at this
time since that is all that anyone else is using (or was) on the
original Florida Layered Packet Network. Frankly I could care less
about linking with FRANCE as a requirement for a Local Network - a
neat thing to do - but anyone can telnet around the world or use VOIP
to get DXCC! Don't get me wrong - w/o the "French Connection" we
have, we would not be working with Linux FPAC - that is from where
much of the Linux grunt work comes.
It is a case of 'Going home with the one that brung you to the Dance.'
No sense changing horses in the middle of the dance floor.
Adding to this complex state of affairs - It will be a long time
before Linux-based clientware is accepted for wide-spread EMCOMMs use
to the extent that Windows clientware is. - A fact we have to deal
with.
Of course we could build a Local network using faster and more modern
protocols - but how can we sell something more expensive (and likely
complex) when we can't sell something that should be relatively
familiar and cheap? Remember - only you and I have made any
response/contribution to this thread in five days with perhaps 30 or
more people getting the e-mail through the reflector.
The sites in which I am involved could all support something new -
such as D-STAR or P25 - or something yet to be proposed. If interest
and funds were available the sites would be ready to go. If a site is
Linux FPAC then the computer will be there if needed for the change
over - to what ever new or legacy OS is required. Additional antennas
for backbones on different bands than 9.6kb could be added, etc, etc.
Until then an analog two meter radio of almost any vintage and a
$30-$50 TNC from a hamfest or the bedroom closet is all the hardware a
budding user needs to use the Local network and gain access to WL2K
Telpac Gateways or other services two, three, or four LANS away when
needed.
>> How many more years Bud.
Who knows? I've been working on this project here since 1999 when I
inherited management of two nearly defunct ROSE switches (Orlando and
DAB) and we now have a network from Melbourne through to
Jacksonville - albeit not without holes as reported. The Jacksonville
group may soon add two sites westward toward Gainesville where there
is a new EMCOMMs group now starting out - and that group and the Ocala
Group to the south are in communications - though not yet on
backbones. The next group that is making plans is in The Villages
and - once operational - could link to Lake County - which is not
officially on the network, but has a Telpac and X1j node hanging
around the Orlando LAN - oppps... I just described the N. Florida Loop
from Orlando through DeLand to DAB to STA to OPK to Middleburg, to
Keystone to Gainesville to Ocala to The Villages to Eustis to Deland
and back to Orlando.
>Also as far as I know there are only 3 people in our community that
>can even maintain a Fpacnode and I am one of them.
That is one reason I'd like to see you keep on keep'n on - Linux Gurus
with interest in Ham Radio at the level needed for these upgrades are
hard to find. Every Ham Community needs at least one - and where we
have a Ham Community that wants to support a switch but has no Guru -
we need Linux Gurus from elsewhere to pitch in and work with them via
the internet.
While there are not yet a horde of Packet Users in the sense of the
80s and early 90s - there is interest in EMCOMMs that will bring more
people (back) to the mode. Telpac nodes dot the state - and we just
had a coordination application for one in Cape Coral where there is
not one. About 1600 Saturday I checked the active Telpac map at
http://www.winlink.org/positions/telpacpos.aspx and found the
following in Florida:
30 Telpac Nodes - Green, Yellow, and Red
2 that are West Canadian that are miss-plotted (and have been for
months!)
3 that have not reported to the internet in the past 6 hours (RED)
2 that have reported within 6 hours but are nearly 6 hours old
(Yellow)
23 that are "current" Green.
This morning (0550) all are current except for three Red.
I know of one more Telpac Gateway - at the DeBary EOC - that has been
off since Thursday due to the EOC computers being put on a different
server. I got a phone call from the IT guy yesterday who said he
would be at the EOC today (Sunday) finishing the change over and will
call me so we can get me back with Remote Desktop Access to the Ham
computer there.
>> How many more years Bud.
I often think about that - but at my age I've got at least five more
and maybe ten more years to play with this.
I'm enjoy it.
73,
bud N0IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry DeLong" <kd4yal at tampabay.rr.com>
To: "'Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association'"
<fadca at mailman.qth.net>
Cc: "'Paul Kronenwetter'" <n2kiq at arrl.net>; <k4gbb at embarqmail.com>;
"'Dave N4GMU'" <n4gmu at bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 14:26
Subject: RE: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
>
> Bud, and the rest of the Group,
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:fadca-
>> bounces at mailman.qth.net]
>> On Behalf Of bud Thompson
>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:45 AM
>> To: Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association
>> Cc: Paul Kronenwetter; k4gbb at embarqmail.com; Dave N4GMU
>> Subject: Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
>
>
>> The FPAC problems indicated by KD4YAL with upgrading Kernels and
>> FPAC, while not trivial, do not adversely affect the existing E.
>> Central Florida network above.
>
> When working on a *SHARED* network changes can have adverse affect
> to your neighbors. In this case we can see a fragmented network
> which
> has really been the case for a number of years.
>
>
>> From a Linux/FPAC perspective the Melbourne, Orlando, DeLand, and
>> OPK sites are nominally stable - but only because we have not taken
>> them to all the various new levels of Linux/FPAC because of the
>> upgrading problems.
>
> By not upgrading your node, you then lack the ability to route
> redundant
> adjacent neighbors. Which is very important if you want to prevent
> the Network from being fragmented.
>
>
>> However, because we do have mix/match levels the White Pages
>> routing
>> from Orlando THRU DeLand to DAB does not work. WP routing works
>> from
>> Orlando to DeLand and from DeLand to DAB on up the network but not
>> when originated at Orlando! Manual routing throughout the network
>> has not been affected.
>
> I started using ROSE in 1996 as an end user back when you could
> connect from East coast to the West coast daily.
>
> Thanks to Wyatt and Doug!
>
> As an end user without having a *PHONE BOOK* it's not an easy task
> finding
> your way around a ROSE network. WP has help with this some what but
> it is
> not as easy as a simple "telnet kd4yal.ampr.org".
>
>> This does not mean that all is perfect on this E Central Florida
>> network - it is certainly in test phase and is a work in progress!
>
> I know we are HAMS and part of that is to experiment but how long
> do you experiment before saying there must be a better way. The
> Florida ROSE network has been developing for how many years now?
>
>
>> Here is why the problems with upgrading LINUX/FPAC is not adversely
>> affecting this part of the network - Upgrading continues using
>> K4GBB's test sites and a 2nd Orlando computer here on my computer
>> LAN. By using these sites for evaluating upgrades the active sites
>> above are not adversely affected. We won't be upgrading any of our
>> sites or converting any of our sites until LINUX/FPAC stability is
>> assured.
>
> How many more years Bud.
>
>
>> All this upgrading of Linux/FPAC in E. Central Florida is being
>> driven by Charles Schuman K4GBB who is in contact with other
>> Linux/FPAC developers. I have all the confidence it this process -
>> it may just take a little time.
>
> There is a developer this would be one person who like Charlie is
> stretched pretty thin most of the time.
>
>
>> All this E-Central Florida network has been a team effort (I'm a
>> hardware person not a Linux person!) N3PPC and I have been
>> directly
>> involved in all these sites for getting hardware ready and
>> installed.
>> W5SMM and W4RP in Melbourne, N4WQK in DAB, KF4MX in STA, and WD4SEN
>> in OPK have been local movers and shakers to keep sites warm.
>> N2KIQ
>> manages the W4MCO-10 Telpac node, and recently N4GMU in Deland has
>> been pitching in with the three sites here in
>> Volusia County
>
> Sugar coated or not, ROSE is really not the way to build a community
> Network for HAM radio. I may not be an expert but I can see what
> works and
> what doesn't. I also have taken the time to compare other
> technologies that
> do work and work well.
>
> Both the Eastern US and Western US have good example of what works.
> If you were to take the time to do a little research the answer,
> is obvious.
>
> I have even had the privilege to work with some of the gentlemen
> that built
> the HAM radio networks from Eastern US some of which now retire in
> Florida.
>
> Maybe we could learn from this. or not. we could just keep isolating
> our self from the rest of the world, well except France of coarse.
>
>
>
>
> Best regards, Jerry DeLong, KD4YAL
>
> _______________________________________________
> FADCA mailing list
> FADCA at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date:
> 9/28/2007 3:40 PM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 08:00:18 -0400
From: "Rick Muething" <rmuething at cfl.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
To: "'Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association'"
<fadca at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <00b001c80359$78ad5fe0$640fa8c0 at wl2kcmbo>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"
Bud,
FYI we will soon be releasing RMS Packet. This is similar to Telpac (runs
on Windows 2K and later) but easier to set up, has autoupdating, direct
connections to CMS Telnet servers as well as the ability to connect to local
Telnet servers when no internet connectivity is available. Now in early beta
testing but looking good.
Rick KN6KB
-----Original Message-----
From: fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of bud Thompson
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:13 AM
To: Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association; Jerald DeLong KD4YAL
Cc: 'Dave N4GMU'; k4gbb at embarqmail.com; 'Paul Kronenwetter'
Subject: Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
Jerry - So far as I can I was the only person to respond at all with
comments to your original note:
Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode
and so far as I can tell you were the only person to respond to my
report which I re-titled
Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
So, in the overall scheme of things there may not be anyone on the
FADCA list other than the two of us who has enough interest to even
comment. That is valid reason for neither of us to spend much time on
this thread if you are bailing out. My interest is not in convincing
you to do something you do not want to do.
My interest is in building a local packet network for anyone who cares
to use the WL2K SYSTEM for e-mail for EMCOMMs. Local in my case is
FADCA District #5 covering five counties in E Central Florida. In the
process anyone who can get on packet can use the network for anything
they want to. We have two County EOCs and five City EOCs on the
network 24/7 using WL2K clientwear and providing TelPac Gateways so
there is valid and rewarding reason for me to continue - in addition
to my being retired - what else would I do with my time but bug K4GBB
with Linux stuff? (When Linux /FPAC gets stable I'll have to find
something else to bug Charlie with.)
Simply providing SMTP mail using ham radio to get to an internet
server does not meet my requirement as the WL2K is a SYSTEM (operative
word) that we have been promoting around the Land. To be sure, it
has caught on in other places more than in Florida! If the local
network can link to others in the state by RF (we now go into District
7 to the north by RF and District 3 via internet in the south) - good
deal - but they will have to be COMPATIBLE. That is why I have no
interest in moving away from the legacy ROSE/FPAC protocol at this
time since that is all that anyone else is using (or was) on the
original Florida Layered Packet Network. Frankly I could care less
about linking with FRANCE as a requirement for a Local Network - a
neat thing to do - but anyone can telnet around the world or use VOIP
to get DXCC! Don't get me wrong - w/o the "French Connection" we
have, we would not be working with Linux FPAC - that is from where
much of the Linux grunt work comes.
It is a case of 'Going home with the one that brung you to the Dance.'
No sense changing horses in the middle of the dance floor.
Adding to this complex state of affairs - It will be a long time
before Linux-based clientware is accepted for wide-spread EMCOMMs use
to the extent that Windows clientware is. - A fact we have to deal
with.
Of course we could build a Local network using faster and more modern
protocols - but how can we sell something more expensive (and likely
complex) when we can't sell something that should be relatively
familiar and cheap? Remember - only you and I have made any
response/contribution to this thread in five days with perhaps 30 or
more people getting the e-mail through the reflector.
The sites in which I am involved could all support something new -
such as D-STAR or P25 - or something yet to be proposed. If interest
and funds were available the sites would be ready to go. If a site is
Linux FPAC then the computer will be there if needed for the change
over - to what ever new or legacy OS is required. Additional antennas
for backbones on different bands than 9.6kb could be added, etc, etc.
Until then an analog two meter radio of almost any vintage and a
$30-$50 TNC from a hamfest or the bedroom closet is all the hardware a
budding user needs to use the Local network and gain access to WL2K
Telpac Gateways or other services two, three, or four LANS away when
needed.
>> How many more years Bud.
Who knows? I've been working on this project here since 1999 when I
inherited management of two nearly defunct ROSE switches (Orlando and
DAB) and we now have a network from Melbourne through to
Jacksonville - albeit not without holes as reported. The Jacksonville
group may soon add two sites westward toward Gainesville where there
is a new EMCOMMs group now starting out - and that group and the Ocala
Group to the south are in communications - though not yet on
backbones. The next group that is making plans is in The Villages
and - once operational - could link to Lake County - which is not
officially on the network, but has a Telpac and X1j node hanging
around the Orlando LAN - oppps... I just described the N. Florida Loop
from Orlando through DeLand to DAB to STA to OPK to Middleburg, to
Keystone to Gainesville to Ocala to The Villages to Eustis to Deland
and back to Orlando.
>Also as far as I know there are only 3 people in our community that
>can even maintain a Fpacnode and I am one of them.
That is one reason I'd like to see you keep on keep'n on - Linux Gurus
with interest in Ham Radio at the level needed for these upgrades are
hard to find. Every Ham Community needs at least one - and where we
have a Ham Community that wants to support a switch but has no Guru -
we need Linux Gurus from elsewhere to pitch in and work with them via
the internet.
While there are not yet a horde of Packet Users in the sense of the
80s and early 90s - there is interest in EMCOMMs that will bring more
people (back) to the mode. Telpac nodes dot the state - and we just
had a coordination application for one in Cape Coral where there is
not one. About 1600 Saturday I checked the active Telpac map at
http://www.winlink.org/positions/telpacpos.aspx and found the
following in Florida:
30 Telpac Nodes - Green, Yellow, and Red
2 that are West Canadian that are miss-plotted (and have been for
months!)
3 that have not reported to the internet in the past 6 hours (RED)
2 that have reported within 6 hours but are nearly 6 hours old
(Yellow)
23 that are "current" Green.
This morning (0550) all are current except for three Red.
I know of one more Telpac Gateway - at the DeBary EOC - that has been
off since Thursday due to the EOC computers being put on a different
server. I got a phone call from the IT guy yesterday who said he
would be at the EOC today (Sunday) finishing the change over and will
call me so we can get me back with Remote Desktop Access to the Ham
computer there.
>> How many more years Bud.
I often think about that - but at my age I've got at least five more
and maybe ten more years to play with this.
I'm enjoy it.
73,
bud N0IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry DeLong" <kd4yal at tampabay.rr.com>
To: "'Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association'"
<fadca at mailman.qth.net>
Cc: "'Paul Kronenwetter'" <n2kiq at arrl.net>; <k4gbb at embarqmail.com>;
"'Dave N4GMU'" <n4gmu at bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 14:26
Subject: RE: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
>
> Bud, and the rest of the Group,
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:fadca-
>> bounces at mailman.qth.net]
>> On Behalf Of bud Thompson
>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:45 AM
>> To: Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association
>> Cc: Paul Kronenwetter; k4gbb at embarqmail.com; Dave N4GMU
>> Subject: Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
>
>
>> The FPAC problems indicated by KD4YAL with upgrading Kernels and
>> FPAC, while not trivial, do not adversely affect the existing E.
>> Central Florida network above.
>
> When working on a *SHARED* network changes can have adverse affect
> to your neighbors. In this case we can see a fragmented network
> which
> has really been the case for a number of years.
>
>
>> From a Linux/FPAC perspective the Melbourne, Orlando, DeLand, and
>> OPK sites are nominally stable - but only because we have not taken
>> them to all the various new levels of Linux/FPAC because of the
>> upgrading problems.
>
> By not upgrading your node, you then lack the ability to route
> redundant
> adjacent neighbors. Which is very important if you want to prevent
> the Network from being fragmented.
>
>
>> However, because we do have mix/match levels the White Pages
>> routing
>> from Orlando THRU DeLand to DAB does not work. WP routing works
>> from
>> Orlando to DeLand and from DeLand to DAB on up the network but not
>> when originated at Orlando! Manual routing throughout the network
>> has not been affected.
>
> I started using ROSE in 1996 as an end user back when you could
> connect from East coast to the West coast daily.
>
> Thanks to Wyatt and Doug!
>
> As an end user without having a *PHONE BOOK* it's not an easy task
> finding
> your way around a ROSE network. WP has help with this some what but
> it is
> not as easy as a simple "telnet kd4yal.ampr.org".
>
>> This does not mean that all is perfect on this E Central Florida
>> network - it is certainly in test phase and is a work in progress!
>
> I know we are HAMS and part of that is to experiment but how long
> do you experiment before saying there must be a better way. The
> Florida ROSE network has been developing for how many years now?
>
>
>> Here is why the problems with upgrading LINUX/FPAC is not adversely
>> affecting this part of the network - Upgrading continues using
>> K4GBB's test sites and a 2nd Orlando computer here on my computer
>> LAN. By using these sites for evaluating upgrades the active sites
>> above are not adversely affected. We won't be upgrading any of our
>> sites or converting any of our sites until LINUX/FPAC stability is
>> assured.
>
> How many more years Bud.
>
>
>> All this upgrading of Linux/FPAC in E. Central Florida is being
>> driven by Charles Schuman K4GBB who is in contact with other
>> Linux/FPAC developers. I have all the confidence it this process -
>> it may just take a little time.
>
> There is a developer this would be one person who like Charlie is
> stretched pretty thin most of the time.
>
>
>> All this E-Central Florida network has been a team effort (I'm a
>> hardware person not a Linux person!) N3PPC and I have been
>> directly
>> involved in all these sites for getting hardware ready and
>> installed.
>> W5SMM and W4RP in Melbourne, N4WQK in DAB, KF4MX in STA, and WD4SEN
>> in OPK have been local movers and shakers to keep sites warm.
>> N2KIQ
>> manages the W4MCO-10 Telpac node, and recently N4GMU in Deland has
>> been pitching in with the three sites here in
>> Volusia County
>
> Sugar coated or not, ROSE is really not the way to build a community
> Network for HAM radio. I may not be an expert but I can see what
> works and
> what doesn't. I also have taken the time to compare other
> technologies that
> do work and work well.
>
> Both the Eastern US and Western US have good example of what works.
> If you were to take the time to do a little research the answer,
> is obvious.
>
> I have even had the privilege to work with some of the gentlemen
> that built
> the HAM radio networks from Eastern US some of which now retire in
> Florida.
>
> Maybe we could learn from this. or not. we could just keep isolating
> our self from the rest of the world, well except France of coarse.
>
>
>
>
> Best regards, Jerry DeLong, KD4YAL
>
> _______________________________________________
> FADCA mailing list
> FADCA at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date:
> 9/28/2007 3:40 PM
>
>
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 08:49:34 -0400
From: "Ray Cook" <WD4SEN at bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
To: "'Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association'"
<fadca at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <20070930125409.425E6859C65 at mailman.qth.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have been reading the thread, it appeared to be between the two of
you...of which I had no interest in interfering.....
My only question Jerry is you spoke of other than Linux.....but you never
said what......
What is so much better than LINUX?......just curious...........
Ray WD4SEN
-----Original Message-----
From: fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of bud Thompson
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:13 AM
To: Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association; Jerald DeLong KD4YAL
Cc: 'Dave N4GMU'; k4gbb at embarqmail.com; 'Paul Kronenwetter'
Subject: Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
Jerry - So far as I can I was the only person to respond at all with
comments to your original note:
Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode
and so far as I can tell you were the only person to respond to my
report which I re-titled
Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
So, in the overall scheme of things there may not be anyone on the
FADCA list other than the two of us who has enough interest to even
comment. That is valid reason for neither of us to spend much time on
this thread if you are bailing out. My interest is not in convincing
you to do something you do not want to do.
My interest is in building a local packet network for anyone who cares
to use the WL2K SYSTEM for e-mail for EMCOMMs. Local in my case is
FADCA District #5 covering five counties in E Central Florida. In the
process anyone who can get on packet can use the network for anything
they want to. We have two County EOCs and five City EOCs on the
network 24/7 using WL2K clientwear and providing TelPac Gateways so
there is valid and rewarding reason for me to continue - in addition
to my being retired - what else would I do with my time but bug K4GBB
with Linux stuff? (When Linux /FPAC gets stable I'll have to find
something else to bug Charlie with.)
Simply providing SMTP mail using ham radio to get to an internet
server does not meet my requirement as the WL2K is a SYSTEM (operative
word) that we have been promoting around the Land. To be sure, it
has caught on in other places more than in Florida! If the local
network can link to others in the state by RF (we now go into District
7 to the north by RF and District 3 via internet in the south) - good
deal - but they will have to be COMPATIBLE. That is why I have no
interest in moving away from the legacy ROSE/FPAC protocol at this
time since that is all that anyone else is using (or was) on the
original Florida Layered Packet Network. Frankly I could care less
about linking with FRANCE as a requirement for a Local Network - a
neat thing to do - but anyone can telnet around the world or use VOIP
to get DXCC! Don't get me wrong - w/o the "French Connection" we
have, we would not be working with Linux FPAC - that is from where
much of the Linux grunt work comes.
It is a case of 'Going home with the one that brung you to the Dance.'
No sense changing horses in the middle of the dance floor.
Adding to this complex state of affairs - It will be a long time
before Linux-based clientware is accepted for wide-spread EMCOMMs use
to the extent that Windows clientware is. - A fact we have to deal
with.
Of course we could build a Local network using faster and more modern
protocols - but how can we sell something more expensive (and likely
complex) when we can't sell something that should be relatively
familiar and cheap? Remember - only you and I have made any
response/contribution to this thread in five days with perhaps 30 or
more people getting the e-mail through the reflector.
The sites in which I am involved could all support something new -
such as D-STAR or P25 - or something yet to be proposed. If interest
and funds were available the sites would be ready to go. If a site is
Linux FPAC then the computer will be there if needed for the change
over - to what ever new or legacy OS is required. Additional antennas
for backbones on different bands than 9.6kb could be added, etc, etc.
Until then an analog two meter radio of almost any vintage and a
$30-$50 TNC from a hamfest or the bedroom closet is all the hardware a
budding user needs to use the Local network and gain access to WL2K
Telpac Gateways or other services two, three, or four LANS away when
needed.
>> How many more years Bud.
Who knows? I've been working on this project here since 1999 when I
inherited management of two nearly defunct ROSE switches (Orlando and
DAB) and we now have a network from Melbourne through to
Jacksonville - albeit not without holes as reported. The Jacksonville
group may soon add two sites westward toward Gainesville where there
is a new EMCOMMs group now starting out - and that group and the Ocala
Group to the south are in communications - though not yet on
backbones. The next group that is making plans is in The Villages
and - once operational - could link to Lake County - which is not
officially on the network, but has a Telpac and X1j node hanging
around the Orlando LAN - oppps... I just described the N. Florida Loop
from Orlando through DeLand to DAB to STA to OPK to Middleburg, to
Keystone to Gainesville to Ocala to The Villages to Eustis to Deland
and back to Orlando.
>Also as far as I know there are only 3 people in our community that
>can even maintain a Fpacnode and I am one of them.
That is one reason I'd like to see you keep on keep'n on - Linux Gurus
with interest in Ham Radio at the level needed for these upgrades are
hard to find. Every Ham Community needs at least one - and where we
have a Ham Community that wants to support a switch but has no Guru -
we need Linux Gurus from elsewhere to pitch in and work with them via
the internet.
While there are not yet a horde of Packet Users in the sense of the
80s and early 90s - there is interest in EMCOMMs that will bring more
people (back) to the mode. Telpac nodes dot the state - and we just
had a coordination application for one in Cape Coral where there is
not one. About 1600 Saturday I checked the active Telpac map at
http://www.winlink.org/positions/telpacpos.aspx and found the
following in Florida:
30 Telpac Nodes - Green, Yellow, and Red
2 that are West Canadian that are miss-plotted (and have been for
months!)
3 that have not reported to the internet in the past 6 hours (RED)
2 that have reported within 6 hours but are nearly 6 hours old
(Yellow)
23 that are "current" Green.
This morning (0550) all are current except for three Red.
I know of one more Telpac Gateway - at the DeBary EOC - that has been
off since Thursday due to the EOC computers being put on a different
server. I got a phone call from the IT guy yesterday who said he
would be at the EOC today (Sunday) finishing the change over and will
call me so we can get me back with Remote Desktop Access to the Ham
computer there.
>> How many more years Bud.
I often think about that - but at my age I've got at least five more
and maybe ten more years to play with this.
I'm enjoy it.
73,
bud N0IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry DeLong" <kd4yal at tampabay.rr.com>
To: "'Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association'"
<fadca at mailman.qth.net>
Cc: "'Paul Kronenwetter'" <n2kiq at arrl.net>; <k4gbb at embarqmail.com>;
"'Dave N4GMU'" <n4gmu at bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 14:26
Subject: RE: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
>
> Bud, and the rest of the Group,
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:fadca-
>> bounces at mailman.qth.net]
>> On Behalf Of bud Thompson
>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:45 AM
>> To: Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association
>> Cc: Paul Kronenwetter; k4gbb at embarqmail.com; Dave N4GMU
>> Subject: Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
>
>
>> The FPAC problems indicated by KD4YAL with upgrading Kernels and
>> FPAC, while not trivial, do not adversely affect the existing E.
>> Central Florida network above.
>
> When working on a *SHARED* network changes can have adverse affect
> to your neighbors. In this case we can see a fragmented network
> which
> has really been the case for a number of years.
>
>
>> From a Linux/FPAC perspective the Melbourne, Orlando, DeLand, and
>> OPK sites are nominally stable - but only because we have not taken
>> them to all the various new levels of Linux/FPAC because of the
>> upgrading problems.
>
> By not upgrading your node, you then lack the ability to route
> redundant
> adjacent neighbors. Which is very important if you want to prevent
> the Network from being fragmented.
>
>
>> However, because we do have mix/match levels the White Pages
>> routing
>> from Orlando THRU DeLand to DAB does not work. WP routing works
>> from
>> Orlando to DeLand and from DeLand to DAB on up the network but not
>> when originated at Orlando! Manual routing throughout the network
>> has not been affected.
>
> I started using ROSE in 1996 as an end user back when you could
> connect from East coast to the West coast daily.
>
> Thanks to Wyatt and Doug!
>
> As an end user without having a *PHONE BOOK* it's not an easy task
> finding
> your way around a ROSE network. WP has help with this some what but
> it is
> not as easy as a simple "telnet kd4yal.ampr.org".
>
>> This does not mean that all is perfect on this E Central Florida
>> network - it is certainly in test phase and is a work in progress!
>
> I know we are HAMS and part of that is to experiment but how long
> do you experiment before saying there must be a better way. The
> Florida ROSE network has been developing for how many years now?
>
>
>> Here is why the problems with upgrading LINUX/FPAC is not adversely
>> affecting this part of the network - Upgrading continues using
>> K4GBB's test sites and a 2nd Orlando computer here on my computer
>> LAN. By using these sites for evaluating upgrades the active sites
>> above are not adversely affected. We won't be upgrading any of our
>> sites or converting any of our sites until LINUX/FPAC stability is
>> assured.
>
> How many more years Bud.
>
>
>> All this upgrading of Linux/FPAC in E. Central Florida is being
>> driven by Charles Schuman K4GBB who is in contact with other
>> Linux/FPAC developers. I have all the confidence it this process -
>> it may just take a little time.
>
> There is a developer this would be one person who like Charlie is
> stretched pretty thin most of the time.
>
>
>> All this E-Central Florida network has been a team effort (I'm a
>> hardware person not a Linux person!) N3PPC and I have been
>> directly
>> involved in all these sites for getting hardware ready and
>> installed.
>> W5SMM and W4RP in Melbourne, N4WQK in DAB, KF4MX in STA, and WD4SEN
>> in OPK have been local movers and shakers to keep sites warm.
>> N2KIQ
>> manages the W4MCO-10 Telpac node, and recently N4GMU in Deland has
>> been pitching in with the three sites here in
>> Volusia County
>
> Sugar coated or not, ROSE is really not the way to build a community
> Network for HAM radio. I may not be an expert but I can see what
> works and
> what doesn't. I also have taken the time to compare other
> technologies that
> do work and work well.
>
> Both the Eastern US and Western US have good example of what works.
> If you were to take the time to do a little research the answer,
> is obvious.
>
> I have even had the privilege to work with some of the gentlemen
> that built
> the HAM radio networks from Eastern US some of which now retire in
> Florida.
>
> Maybe we could learn from this. or not. we could just keep isolating
> our self from the rest of the world, well except France of coarse.
>
>
>
>
> Best regards, Jerry DeLong, KD4YAL
>
> _______________________________________________
> FADCA mailing list
> FADCA at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date:
> 9/28/2007 3:40 PM
>
>
_______________________________________________
FADCA mailing list
FADCA at mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
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FADCA at mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
End of FADCA Digest, Vol 44, Issue 10
*************************************
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date: 9/28/2007
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.35/1039 - Release Date: 9/29/2007
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