[Elecraft] PayPal holding payment. (Follow up)

Sun May 8 10:49:47 EDT 2022

I use a major company (Visa/AmEx/MC) credit card as my PayPal go to 
'bank' for the PayPal account.

That way I get the ease and means to buy with PayPal (and not go get my 
wallet to dig out the card) when other means are not available (or 
shuffle funds to individuals as needed).  PayPal immediately hits the 
credit card but if there is a conflict I file the complaint with PayPal 
first, then immediately with the credit card company to refuse the charge.

This has worked very well the few times I had issues with an order(about 
once every 3-4 years).  The CC company does an immediate refund to my 
account, while investigating and I let the two of them duke it out.  The 
might (and lawyers) of the CC company is much more power than any 
individual can muster, PayPal usually 'expedites' their efforts to 
resolve the issue.  In the meantime, I have my spending power returned.

There is no hit to the credit rating, you are using the (local, state, 
Fed and international) law and the CC company policies, in your favor 
(PayPal can whine, but they have no power).

This method means the end buyer (us) has less to worry about.

PayPal will cry foul (but wait!  We'll fix this!) if you tell them 
you're refusing the charge.  They have no useful legal recourse if you 
made the charge in good faith and they won't take the time (spend money 
on lawyers) to argue. Their only recourse is to close your PayPal 
account, but that requires 'cause' (or they run afoul of the CC laws).

So don't tell them and be more careful when you use PayPal.  They are 
bound by the same CC laws but expect the buyer to be ignorant of that. 
Become an informed consumer; use the CC protection laws, in your favor 
when there is an issue.

Now if someone could explain (and make sense of) why it takes moments to 
make a charge, but 8-10 working days (weeks) to reverse that charge 
using the same network system; they'd be a hero.  It simply defies logic.

73,
Rick NK7I

On 5/8/2022 7:17 AM, George Thornton wrote:
> I had a situation with a frankly fraudulent internet vendor that was claiming discount prices on a name brand product.  The web page looked identical to the official company in design and appeared to be an outlet for the company.
>
> I placed a small order as a test but then changed my mind within an hour after reading up on problems.  I tried to cancel the order with the company but of course they did not respond and claimed to have shipped.  I of course never got anything.
>
> I went to Paypal who of course paid the company.  I kept crying fraud and after a couple months of back and forth nonsense and my persistence they finally refunded.
>
> I agree Paypal offers no protection for the most blatantly fraudulent transactions.  They are almost complicit in the fraud from their side because they could easily see a pattern of activity
>
> Their own inaction under these circumstances almost makes them complicit in the fraud itself.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net  <elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net>  On Behalf Of Frank Krozel
> Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2022 4:55 AM
> To: David Deelstra<deelstra at xmission.com>
> Cc:elecraft at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] PayPal holding payment. (Follow up)
>
> And don't be surprised when you get a 1099 from PayPal!
> -73-  Frank    KG9H
> kg9hfrank at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>> On May 7, 2022, at 10:23 PM, David Deelstra<deelstra at xmission.com>  wrote:
>>
>> After a rabbit hole trip through PayPal's endless loop "customer service" pages, I stumbled on a page that asked what help I needed. I kept entering "Notice of Delivery". When it ran out of questions and options, finally I was presented with a page with a 6 digit number on a black background, below which was a phone number. I called, got instructions on what to do, spent the next ten minutes listening to the pages (verbatim) I had spent the last three hours digging through. Finally I was asked for the six digit pass code then sat through another eternity on hold finally answered by a human sounding voice. I explained that I had been trying to find a way to send them Proof of Delivery. She said PayPal already had POD and that my buyer only had to log in to his account, go to Activity, scroll down to the item and click to release payment. None of this was transmitted to me or the buyer by PayPal or shown on their "Help" pages.
>> I contacted the buyer, he followed up, and within minutes the subject "Your money is available" appeared in my in box.
>> I hope this helps others avoid similar problems. I intend to call my credit union's customer service and see what I can do to (legally and safely, for both parties) transfer funds for goods and services. Maybe VISA would be willing to offer such a service, or the shipping companies? How 'bout it UPS?
>>
>> 73, Dave N7ISH
>>
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