[Elecraft] Compare: K3 to Collins S-line receiver

[Henry Pollock - K4TMC]

Don,

Thanks for the comments.  Good points!

And just to keep the thread from getting off track...my point of reference
relative to tube audio is post 1995 era electronic and speaker designs, not
the "old tube-type radio" and their associated speakers.

73,
Henry - K4TMC


On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Don Wilhelm <donwilh at embarqmail.com> wrote:

> Henry,
>
> I believe you will find the arguments similar to those among audiophiles
> when recorded music was changing from vinyl to CDs.
> My take on the subject is that the dynamic range of the digital techniques
> exceeded the analog by a wide range you will not be able to discern the
> microprocessor noise at normal or even very high listening levels.
>
> Take a look at the dynamic range and MDS of modern hybrid (like the
> K3/K3S) receivers or good SDR receivers (like KX3 or KX2), in comparison to
> some of the best analog receivers, and you should find that the dynamic
> range is much greater (indicating its resistance to overload and distortion
> is greater).  That increased dynamic range gives rise to a better MDS - in
> other words, it can hear weaker signals.
> The mathematics in the DSP code is not going to cause distortion unless
> the ADC is overloaded with a strong signal (good design says that should
> not happen).
>
> The Sherwood listings will verify what I am saying - yes, there are
> several analog tube-type radios in the Sherwood listing, but they are
> pretty far down the list.
>
> Any microprocessor noise should only be introduced in the audio section,
> and with good design, that should not happen either - oh yes, if you have
> very good ears, you might be able to hear some at a very low level if you
> turn the AF gain up all the way, but that is not a normal condition.
>
> If your ears feel that the tube audio gear is "warmer" than the solid
> state stuff, then consider that the tube gear generates some 2nd and 3rd
> order distortion which is normally what makes it sound "warmer".  There are
> devices available for solid state audio which add a bit of that "warming
> sound" to better satisfy the ears of those who like to hear it.
>
> Certainly, the large speaker enclosures used with old tube-type radios
> sound much better than the small speakers in compact solid state radios, so
> please don't compare based on those speakers.  Connect a good quality audio
> system to both radios if you want to make a comparison of that sort.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>
> On 6/4/2018 8:49 AM, Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:
>
>> Yes, I would like to here what others can add to this thread.  One of my
>> past hobbies was high-end tube audio electronics, and in numerous set-ups,
>> they sounded superior to solid-state equipment.
>>
>> So, my additional question would be...is the microprocessor
>> noise/distortion affecting the RF signal or just the AF signal, or both?
>>
>> 73,
>> Henry - K4TMC
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 7:46 PM, Ron Genovesi <n3eta at coastside.net> wrote:
>>
>> I’m interested. Keep the thread going here
>>>
>>> Ron Genovesi
>>> Sent from My  iPad
>>>
>>> On Jun 3, 2018, at 7:22 AM, Kjeld Holm <kh at kh-translation.dk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Bill,
>>>>
>>>> Parts of the answer can be found at
>>>> http://www.sherweng.com/table.html
>>>> search for Collins and you will get some 3 - 5 hits.
>>>>
>>>> Vy 73 de OZ1CCM, Kjeld
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>>> [mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill
>>>> Sent: 3. juni 2018 15:17
>>>> To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
>>>> Subject: [Elecraft] Compare: K3 to Collins S-line receiver
>>>>
>>>> Discounting the digital capabilities such as memories, DSP, etc. and
>>>> only considering actual signal reception: I have had S-lines in the past
>>>> (dark dim past), so certainly am familier with them. However, as a point
>>>> of curiosity, how does the S-line compare to the K3 (only interested in
>>>> SSB). Basically, I am interested in how a top of the line analog
>>>> receiver does compares to a K3(S)? The question comes from a QSO
>>>> regarding the microprocessor noise of modern rigs covering and/or
>>>> distorting received signals. Offline response might be good for this, as
>>>> I am sure not many would be interested in the subject.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Bill W2BLC K-Line
>>>>
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