[Elecraft] Compare: K3 to Collins S-line receiver
Don Wilhelm
donwilh at embarqmail.com
Mon Jun 4 10:31:37 EDT 2018
Henry,
I understand, but no matter, the thing that causes the "warm" sound for
tube amplifiers is the inherent 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion in the
output transformers. That is nigh-on to impossible to eliminate.
Solid state gear does not normally use output transformers.
73,
Don W3FPR
On 6/4/2018 10:19 AM, Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:
> Don,
>
> Thanks for the comments. Good points!
>
> And just to keep the thread from getting off track...my point of
> reference relative to tube audio is post 1995 era electronic and
> speaker designs, not the "old tube-type radio" and their associated
> speakers.
>
> 73,
> Henry - K4TMC
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Don Wilhelm <donwilh at embarqmail.com
> <mailto:donwilh at embarqmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Henry,
>
> I believe you will find the arguments similar to those among
> audiophiles when recorded music was changing from vinyl to CDs.
> My take on the subject is that the dynamic range of the digital
> techniques exceeded the analog by a wide range you will not be
> able to discern the microprocessor noise at normal or even very
> high listening levels.
>
> Take a look at the dynamic range and MDS of modern hybrid (like
> the K3/K3S) receivers or good SDR receivers (like KX3 or KX2), in
> comparison to some of the best analog receivers, and you should
> find that the dynamic range is much greater (indicating its
> resistance to overload and distortion is greater). That increased
> dynamic range gives rise to a better MDS - in other words, it can
> hear weaker signals.
> The mathematics in the DSP code is not going to cause distortion
> unless the ADC is overloaded with a strong signal (good design
> says that should not happen).
>
> The Sherwood listings will verify what I am saying - yes, there
> are several analog tube-type radios in the Sherwood listing, but
> they are pretty far down the list.
>
> Any microprocessor noise should only be introduced in the audio
> section, and with good design, that should not happen either - oh
> yes, if you have very good ears, you might be able to hear some at
> a very low level if you turn the AF gain up all the way, but that
> is not a normal condition.
>
> If your ears feel that the tube audio gear is "warmer" than the
> solid state stuff, then consider that the tube gear generates some
> 2nd and 3rd order distortion which is normally what makes it sound
> "warmer". There are devices available for solid state audio which
> add a bit of that "warming sound" to better satisfy the ears of
> those who like to hear it.
>
> Certainly, the large speaker enclosures used with old tube-type
> radios sound much better than the small speakers in compact solid
> state radios, so please don't compare based on those speakers.
> Connect a good quality audio system to both radios if you want to
> make a comparison of that sort.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
>
> On 6/4/2018 8:49 AM, Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:
>
> Yes, I would like to here what others can add to this thread.
> One of my
> past hobbies was high-end tube audio electronics, and in
> numerous set-ups,
> they sounded superior to solid-state equipment.
>
> So, my additional question would be...is the microprocessor
> noise/distortion affecting the RF signal or just the AF
> signal, or both?
>
> 73,
> Henry - K4TMC
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 7:46 PM, Ron Genovesi
> <n3eta at coastside.net <mailto:n3eta at coastside.net>> wrote:
>
> I’m interested. Keep the thread going here
>
> Ron Genovesi
> Sent from My iPad
>
> On Jun 3, 2018, at 7:22 AM, Kjeld Holm
> <kh at kh-translation.dk <mailto:kh at kh-translation.dk>>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Bill,
>
> Parts of the answer can be found at
> http://www.sherweng.com/table.html
> <http://www.sherweng.com/table.html>
> search for Collins and you will get some 3 - 5 hits.
>
> Vy 73 de OZ1CCM, Kjeld
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> <mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net>
> [mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> <mailto:elecraft-bounces at mailman.qth.net>] On Behalf
> Of Bill
> Sent: 3. juni 2018 15:17
> To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
> <mailto:elecraft at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [Elecraft] Compare: K3 to Collins S-line receiver
>
> Discounting the digital capabilities such as memories,
> DSP, etc. and
> only considering actual signal reception: I have had
> S-lines in the past
> (dark dim past), so certainly am familier with them.
> However, as a point
> of curiosity, how does the S-line compare to the K3
> (only interested in
> SSB). Basically, I am interested in how a top of the
> line analog
> receiver does compares to a K3(S)? The question comes
> from a QSO
> regarding the microprocessor noise of modern rigs
> covering and/or
> distorting received signals. Offline response might be
> good for this, as
> I am sure not many would be interested in the subject.
>
> Thanks, Bill W2BLC K-Line
>
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