[CW] AR or K after CQ?

DANNY DOUGLAS N7DC at COMCAST.NET
Tue Jul 21 21:57:56 EDT 2009 

I spent 4 years in Army communications (ASA and Special Forces) , and 29 as 
a professional government communicator, working everything from CW nets at 
the beginning, right up thru TTY, Packet, and satellite operations.  As I 
stated, AR is used at the end of individual official messages, but since we 
hams dont use "messages" in that sense,  it has come to mean between 
conversations.  Its neither here nor there, but its use after a CQ certainly 
makes no sense.  I see no place in ham radio for an AR, at all, unless you 
are relaying ARRL set messages, or emergency traffic for other organizations 
such as the Red Cross, for emergencies or training for such.  I cannot 
remember ever using one, in hamming, except in those circumstances. But have 
heard many hams using AR as a final of a QSO.  I believe SK or VA is more 
appropriate, and better understood then.

Danny Douglas
N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB

All 2 years or more (except Novice)
Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
I Do not us, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
those who do.

Moderator
DXandTALK
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
DXandTALK at YAHOOGROUPS.COM

Moderator
Digital_modes
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Howard Kraus" <K2UD at adelphia.net>
To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [CW] AR or K after CQ?


> Do read the operating manual, you may find some useful information therein
> (especially things concerning prosigns).
>
> 73
>
> Howard K2UD
>
> ex, oh who cares
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "DANNY DOUGLAS" <N7DC at COMCAST.NET>
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [CW] AR or K after CQ?
>
>
>> Yes - but we as hams do not send messages as they are speaking of- unless
> we
>> are passing official traffic.  (The RELAY in ARRL.) Day to Day operations
> ,
>> with short "overs" between hams are "over " in voice, and KN in code or
>> RTTY. and that is why the AR and SK pretty much means the same thing, at
> the
>> end of our last and final transmission between two of us.
>> Danny Douglas
>> N7DC
>> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
>> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
>>
>> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
>> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
>> I Do not us, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
>> those who do.
>>
>> Moderator
>> DXandTALK
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
>> DXandTALK at YAHOOGROUPS.COM
>>
>> Moderator
>> Digital_modes
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Howard Kraus" <K2UD at adelphia.net>
>> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [CW] AR or K after CQ?
>>
>>
>> > Nope, AR is end of message.  SK is end of contact.  The ARRL Operating
>> > Manual explains all.
>> >
>> > 73
>> >
>> > Howard K2UD
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "DANNY DOUGLAS" <N7DC at COMCAST.NET>
>> > To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:32 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [CW] AR or K after CQ?
>> >
>> >
>> >> Nope -   AR is the same as SK or VA - and means I am finished with my
>> >> communications, and am not going to listen anymore.
>> >>
>> >> That reminds me of the "Roger, over and out" often (way too often)
> heard
>> > or
>> >> seen on tv and movies.  That would mean"  OVER - (I am finished 
>> >> talking
>> > this
>> >> round, you go ahead), and OUT means " I am finished with our
>> >> communications".  In other words they just said:  "Over to you but I
> aint
>> >> listening"
>> >>
>> >> I have seen at least one DX RTTY station ending every transmission 
>> >> with
>> > "SK"
>> >> and when he gets a dozen others calling him, he gets upset, because
> most
>> > of
>> >> the time he is still trying to talk to the original station.  By the
> way,
>> >> SK, and VA are simply the same ..._._ character in cw, and each was
> used
>> > in
>> >> different services in different parts of the world, and still may be.
>> >>
>> >> The other guy is correct:  K should be used at the end of every CQ. 
>> >> It
>> >> means "anyone please answer".   KN should be used at the end of your
> last
>> >> "over" and means you want ONLY the station to which you are presently
>> >> talking,  to come back to you. "K4KYV DE N7DC R TKS FOR QSO AND HOW
> COPY
>> > NOW
>> >> KN" If N1ooo calls at that time, I will probably tell him to stand by,
> or
>> >> just ignore him.   If I say: " K4KYV DE N7DC RGR THANKS QSO ES HOPE 
>> >> SEE
>> > YOU
>> >> AGN 73 AR"   That means I have finished talking to you (assuming you
> have
>> >> given me your final before that), and now the N1ooo or anyone else has
>> > free
>> >> air to call me.
>> >>
>> >> The present "authority" on tellecomunications pro-signs, would seem to
> be
>> >> the NATO instructional books, which were just a follow-on of US and
> some
>> >> other authorative government instructions from way back in the 
>> >> 30s-40s.
>> >> Those books, by the way, are called the ACP line of telecommunications
>> >> instructions.  You can search them, such as ACP 117,   etc.
>> >>
>> >> Hey, and you do have people answer after you say  CQ AR, but you dont
>> >> know
>> >> how many DIDNT answer because you used that.   !!!!!
>> >> Danny Douglas
>> >> N7DC
>> >> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
>> >> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
>> >>
>> >> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
>> >> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
>> >> I Do not us, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
>> >> those who do.
>> >>
>> >> Moderator
>> >> DXandTALK
>> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
>> >> DXandTALK at YAHOOGROUPS.COM
>> >>
>> >> Moderator
>> >> Digital_modes
>> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "D. Chester" <k4kyv at charter.net>
>> >> To: <cw at mailman.qth.net>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:31 PM
>> >> Subject: [CW] AR or K after CQ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >I got into what turned into a heated debate recently over the use of
> AR
>> >> > following a CQ.
>> >> >
>> >> > The other person said you should never send anything but K after a
> CQ,
>> > and
>> >> > that it is poor operating to use AR.
>> >> >
>> >> > Isn't AR supposed to mean that you have made a call, and you are
>> > standing
>> >> > by, listening for a station you have not yet made contact with? For
>> >> > example,
>> >> > if I had a sked with W9XXX and gave him a call, I would send W9XXX
>> >> > W9XXX
>> >> > de
>> >> > K4KYV AR. Once I hear his reply and we have established contact, I
>> >> > would
>> >> > then send W9XXX de K4KYV K (or KN).
>> >> >
>> >> > When I call CQ and stand by to listen, by definition, no contact has
>> >> > yet
>> >> > been established with the station I eventually contact. So wouldn't
> the
>> >> > appropriate prosign be AR? To me, K implies that we have established
>> >> > contact
>> >> > and I am telling him to "go ahead".
>> >> >
>> >> > I looked this up in some of my old books both ARRL and non-ARRL.
> Some
>> > of
>> >> > the more recent editions seem to prefer K, but Handy's first edition
> of
>> >> > the
>> >> > ARRL handbook from the late 20's used ._._. (AR).
>> >> >
>> >> > I say it is a matter of preference.  Who would be the "authority" in
>> > such
>> >> > a
>> >> > matter?  I have heard it both ways in all the 50  years I have been
>> >> > licensed.  To me, AR has a more pleasant swing for ending a CQ, and
> it
>> >> > seems
>> >> > to better round out the transmission.  K seems too abrupt.  I have
>> >> > never
>> >> > had
>> >> > a problem getting someone to answer my CQ after sending AR.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Don k4kyv
>> >> > _______________________________________________________________
>> >> >
>> >> > This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/
>> >> > http://gigliwood.com/abcd/
>> >> >
>> >> > ______________________________________________________________
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