[CW] AR or K after CQ?
AD5VJ Bob
rtnmi at sbcglobal.net
Tue Jul 21 22:46:02 EDT 2009
Hi Danny
Haven't talked to you in a while, how you been doing? Also you might remember that if sending to a station of higher rank you never
ended the QSO they always did.
You only placed your station in ready.
If anyone is interested you can go to the MARS websites and study the difference in protocol.
It is quiet interesting to read about. Or you can do what I do and copy paste and send it to yourself for practice Hi Hi.
I remember my short lived days (2 mos) in Communications while in the Navy before being transferred to Radar and quiet frankly now
wish I had stayed in Comms.
Bob AD5VJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cw-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:cw-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of DANNY DOUGLAS
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:58 PM
> To: CW Reflector
> Subject: Re: [CW] AR or K after CQ?
>
> I spent 4 years in Army communications (ASA and Special
> Forces) , and 29 as a professional government communicator,
> working everything from CW nets at the beginning, right up
> thru TTY, Packet, and satellite operations. As I stated, AR
> is used at the end of individual official messages, but since
> we hams dont use "messages" in that sense, it has come to
> mean between conversations. Its neither here nor there, but
> its use after a CQ certainly makes no sense. I see no place
> in ham radio for an AR, at all, unless you are relaying ARRL
> set messages, or emergency traffic for other organizations
> such as the Red Cross, for emergencies or training for such.
> I cannot remember ever using one, in hamming, except in those
> circumstances. But have heard many hams using AR as a final
> of a QSO. I believe SK or VA is more appropriate, and better
> understood then.
>
> Danny Douglas
> N7DC
> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
>
> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not us, but as
> a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do.
>
> Moderator
> DXandTALK
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
> DXandTALK at YAHOOGROUPS.COM
>
> Moderator
> Digital_modes
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Howard Kraus" <K2UD at adelphia.net>
> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [CW] AR or K after CQ?
>
>
> > Do read the operating manual, you may find some useful
> information therein
> > (especially things concerning prosigns).
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Howard K2UD
> >
> > ex, oh who cares
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "DANNY DOUGLAS" <N7DC at COMCAST.NET>
> > To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: [CW] AR or K after CQ?
> >
> >
> >> Yes - but we as hams do not send messages as they are
> speaking of- unless
> > we
> >> are passing official traffic. (The RELAY in ARRL.) Day to
> Day operations
> > ,
> >> with short "overs" between hams are "over " in voice, and
> KN in code or
> >> RTTY. and that is why the AR and SK pretty much means the
> same thing, at
> > the
> >> end of our last and final transmission between two of us.
> >> Danny Douglas
> >> N7DC
> >> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
> >> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
> >>
> >> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
> >> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
> >> I Do not us, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
> >> those who do.
> >>
> >> Moderator
> >> DXandTALK
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
> >> DXandTALK at YAHOOGROUPS.COM
> >>
> >> Moderator
> >> Digital_modes
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Howard Kraus" <K2UD at adelphia.net>
> >> To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:50 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [CW] AR or K after CQ?
> >>
> >>
> >> > Nope, AR is end of message. SK is end of contact. The
> ARRL Operating
> >> > Manual explains all.
> >> >
> >> > 73
> >> >
> >> > Howard K2UD
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "DANNY DOUGLAS" <N7DC at COMCAST.NET>
> >> > To: "CW Reflector" <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:32 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [CW] AR or K after CQ?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Nope - AR is the same as SK or VA - and means I am
> finished with my
> >> >> communications, and am not going to listen anymore.
> >> >>
> >> >> That reminds me of the "Roger, over and out" often (way
> too often)
> > heard
> >> > or
> >> >> seen on tv and movies. That would mean" OVER - (I am finished
> >> >> talking
> >> > this
> >> >> round, you go ahead), and OUT means " I am finished with our
> >> >> communications". In other words they just said: "Over
> to you but I
> > ain't
> >> >> listening"
> >> >>
> >> >> I have seen at least one DX RTTY station ending every
> transmission
> >> >> with
> >> > "SK"
> >> >> and when he gets a dozen others calling him, he gets
> upset, because
> > most
> >> > of
> >> >> the time he is still trying to talk to the original
> station. By the
> > way,
> >> >> SK, and VA are simply the same ..._._ character in cw,
> and each was
> > used
> >> > in
> >> >> different services in different parts of the world, and
> still may be.
> >> >>
> >> >> The other guy is correct: K should be used at the end
> of every CQ.
> >> >> It
> >> >> means "anyone please answer". KN should be used at
> the end of your
> > last
> >> >> "over" and means you want ONLY the station to which you
> are presently
> >> >> talking, to come back to you. "K4KYV DE N7DC R TKS FOR
> QSO AND HOW
> > COPY
> >> > NOW
> >> >> KN" If N1ooo calls at that time, I will probably tell
> him to stand by,
> > or
> >> >> just ignore him. If I say: " K4KYV DE N7DC RGR THANKS
> QSO ES HOPE
> >> >> SEE
> >> > YOU
> >> >> AGN 73 AR" That means I have finished talking to you
> (assuming you
> > have
> >> >> given me your final before that), and now the N1ooo or
> anyone else has
> >> > free
> >> >> air to call me.
> >> >>
> >> >> The present "authority" on telecommunications
> pro-signs, would seem to
> > be
> >> >> the NATO instructional books, which were just a
> follow-on of US and
> > some
> >> >> other authorative government instructions from way back in the
> >> >> 30s-40s.
> >> >> Those books, by the way, are called the ACP line of
> telecommunications
> >> >> instructions. You can search them, such as ACP 117, etc.
> >> >>
> >> >> Hey, and you do have people answer after you say CQ
> AR, but you dont
> >> >> know
> >> >> how many DIDN'T answer because you used that. !!!!!
> >> >> Danny Douglas
> >> >> N7DC
> >> >> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
> >> >> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
> >> >>
> >> >> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
> >> >> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
> >> >> I Do not us, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
> >> >> those who do.
> >> >>
> >> >> Moderator
> >> >> DXandTALK
> >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
> >> >> DXandTALK at YAHOOGROUPS.COM
> >> >>
> >> >> Moderator
> >> >> Digital_modes
> >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "D. Chester" <k4kyv at charter.net>
> >> >> To: <cw at mailman.qth.net>
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:31 PM
> >> >> Subject: [CW] AR or K after CQ?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >I got into what turned into a heated debate recently
> over the use of
> > AR
> >> >> > following a CQ.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The other person said you should never send anything
> but K after a
> > CQ,
> >> > and
> >> >> > that it is poor operating to use AR.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Isn't AR supposed to mean that you have made a call,
> and you are
> >> > standing
> >> >> > by, listening for a station you have not yet made
> contact with? For
> >> >> > example,
> >> >> > if I had a sked with W9XXX and gave him a call, I
> would send W9XXX
> >> >> > W9XXX
> >> >> > de
> >> >> > K4KYV AR. Once I hear his reply and we have
> established contact, I
> >> >> > would
> >> >> > then send W9XXX de K4KYV K (or KN).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > When I call CQ and stand by to listen, by definition,
> no contact has
> >> >> > yet
> >> >> > been established with the station I eventually
> contact. So wouldn't
> > the
> >> >> > appropriate prosign be AR? To me, K implies that we
> have established
> >> >> > contact
> >> >> > and I am telling him to "go ahead".
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I looked this up in some of my old books both ARRL
> and non-ARRL.
> > Some
> >> > of
> >> >> > the more recent editions seem to prefer K, but
> Handy's first edition
> > of
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > ARRL handbook from the late 20's used ._._. (AR).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I say it is a matter of preference. Who would be the
> "authority" in
> >> > such
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > matter? I have heard it both ways in all the 50
> years I have been
> >> >> > licensed. To me, AR has a more pleasant swing for
> ending a CQ, and
> > it
> >> >> > seems
> >> >> > to better round out the transmission. K seems too
> abrupt. I have
> >> >> > never
> >> >> > had
> >> >> > a problem getting someone to answer my CQ after sending AR.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Don k4kyv
> >> >> >
> _______________________________________________________________
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/
> >> >> > http://gigliwood.com/abcd/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________
> >> >> > CW mailing list
> >> >> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
> >> >> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> >> > Post: mailto:CW at mailman.qth.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> >> > Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> >>
> >> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> >> CW mailing list
> >> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
> >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> >> Post: mailto:CW at mailman.qth.net
> >> >>
> >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> >> Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> >
> >> > ______________________________________________________________
> >> > CW mailing list
> >> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
> >> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> > Post: mailto:CW at mailman.qth.net
> >> >
> >> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> > Please help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> CW mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:CW at mailman.qth.net
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > CW mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:CW at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> CW mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/cw
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:CW at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
More information about the CW
mailing list