[ARC5] A-10 Radios

Fri Jul 13 18:51:26 EDT 2018

Most excellent idea

On 18:04, Fri, Jul 13, 2018 Scott Johnson <scottjohnson1 at cox.net> wrote:

> Might be nice if you guys would change the thread name, since it’s been
> about 400 messages since anyone said anything about A-10 radio
> installations.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Scott V. Johnson W7SVJ
>
> 5111 E. Sharon Dr.
>
> Scottsdale, AZ 85254-3636
>
> H (602) 953-5779
>
> C (480) 550-2358
>
> scottjohnson1 at cox.net
>
> scott.johnson at ieee.org
>
>
>
> *From:* arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net <arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net> *On
> Behalf Of *Tim
> *Sent:* Friday, July 13, 2018 2:48 PM
> *To:* Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org>
> *Cc:* ARC-5 List <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [ARC5] A-10 Radios
>
>
>
> Yep,, The Russians got pretty good at spoofing Nav signals on the air
> corridor leading into post-war Berlin.  The more modern term for spoofing
> Nav signals is Meaconing.  When detected, you filed a MIJI report to
> higher...
>
>
>
> Tim
>
> N6CC
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Well, yes and no. If you have noise jamming, the system simply shuts down
> on this or that part of the band. Most jamming you
> hear about is narrowband in nature and far from “random” noise. If you set
> up a big enough / powerful enough noise source to
> effectively jam something like an A-10 that is moving at speed, you *will*
> be noticed. You also will be something that is fairly
> easy to home in on and … errr … apply 30 mm rounds to.
>
> The bigger problem is spoofing. There the bad guy tries to fool you into
> believing that his signal is the real nav signal. Loran along
> with any number of military radio nav systems is / was susceptible to this
> sort of thing. There were a lot of incidents in during the
> Cold War related to nav being spoofed and aircraft wandering over borders
> as a result. All of this *long* before GPS (or any other
> satellite based system) came into use.
>
> Spoofing a multiband / multi system nav system that has some smarts built
> in - not at all easy.
>
> Bob
>
>
> > On Jul 13, 2018, at 5:07 PM, Brooke Clarke <brooke at pacific.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi:
> >
> > The problem is that all these sat nav systems work in what used to be
> called L-band (1 - 2 GHz) and it's pretty easy to make a receiver deaf by
> noise jamming with low power. and an antenna that's a few inches in size.
> The mil receivers know they are being jammed and roughly the bearing where
> it's coming from, but they still are jammed.
> >
> > LORAN-C, operating at 100 kHz and with the eLORAN updates would be close
> to GPS in capability and is virtually jam proof.  The transmitters are
> running hundreds of megawatts into a 1000+ foot antenna.  Hard to generate
> a signal at the receiver that can compete with that received power.
> >
> > --
> > Have Fun,
> >
> > Brooke Clarke
> > http://www.PRC68.com
> > http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
> > axioms:
> > 1. The extent to which you can fix or improve something will be limited
> by how well you understand how it works.
> > 2. Everybody, with no exceptions, holds false beliefs.
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> Glonass ( the “Russian GPS”) has been running for almost 20 years now.
> The latest modernization phase started roughly
> >> 10 years back. It has been fully functional for quite a while. The
> European Galileo is still in the “get enough sats up there”
> >> phase. What they have up works ( with a few failures of various
> sub-systems causing the backups to come on line). The
> >> Chinese system is a bit further back than that. The Japanese system is
> up and running with coverage only in a limited area
> >> (by design). The Indian government is still making noises about doing
> their own system. We’ll see how that all works out.
> >>
> >> Without much effort you can get $10 GPS / Glonass receivers on eBay
> (USB sticks). They will happily give you a nav solution
> >> based on either system or on both at once. Many also will do the
> Chinese and Japanese systems in the part of the world where
> >> there is coverage. Finding cheap stuff that tosses Galileo into the mix
> is a bit harder. You probably will have to spend $20 to $30.
> >>
> >> If you have the money, you can get multi band (L1/L2/L5) deuces that
> will work with the big three ( GPS, Galileo, Glonass). That’s
> >> been true for about 5 years. Why you would pay for the European system
> when it’s not fully deployed .. hmmm…. ( = that add-on
> >> may cost about $7,000 alone). If you want to really make it tough on a
> bad guy, run multi band / multi system. It just costs a
> >> (gulp ..) little more.
> >>
> >> So no, we are not living in a world with only one sat nav system.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>> On Jul 12, 2018, at 9:19 PM, Peter Gottlieb <kb2vtl at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> At this point it seems the govt believes that science and reason are
> not to be trusted so all decisions must be opposite what the subject matter
> experts say.  So I have close to zero faith they will do the right thing.
> >>>
> >>> Is the Russian Glonast system up and running yet?  Is that more
> robust?  I would think that relying on multiple independent satnav systems
> would improve the odds that jamming would be detected, etc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 7/12/2018 8:13 PM, Robert Downs via ARC5 wrote:
> >>>> So does everyone else with good sense.  Which doesn't mean it won't
> be done
> >>>> that way.
> >>>>
> >>>> Robert Downs
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:
> arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On
> >>>> Behalf Of Kenneth G. Gordon
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 17:38
> >>>> To: Francesco Ledda
> >>>> Cc: 'To: ARC-5'
> >>>> Subject: Re: [ARC5] A-10 Radios
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally, I think it is a big mistake to put all our navigation
> eggs in
> >>>> one basket.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ken W7EKB
> >>>>
> >>>> ---
> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>
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