[ARC5] Penetrating Oils

[Geoff]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Knoppow" <1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com>
To: <jfor at quikus.com>; "D C _Mac_ Macdonald" <k2gkk at hotmail.com>
Cc: "ARC-5 Mail List" <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ARC5] Penetrating Oils


>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quikus.com>
> To: "D C _Mac_ Macdonald" <k2gkk at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "ARC-5 Mail List" <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARC5] Penetrating Oils
>
>
>> Are you sure?
>>
>> I've used Fantastik for decades w/o issues. OTOH, 409 does cause problems
>> with some plastics.
>>
>> -John
>
>    I don't know the difference between Formula 409 and Fantastic but have 
> read similar warnings.  I have a household cleaner from the 99cent store 
> that is quite effective but caused the labels on an old typewriter to run. 
> Fortunately, I had used it in only one place. I have to agree with Mike 
> that you must test anything you want to use.
>    Probably the least harmful cleaner is plain liquid dishwashing 
> detergent. Its also surprisingly effective.
>    Other stuff in this thread are penetrating oils and rust removers. Most 
> rust removers use a type of chemical called a reducing agent. These 
> combine with the oxygen in oxidized metals. Similar substances are used as 
> photographic developers.  The most common reducing agent in rust removers 
> seems to be phosphoric acid, that's what's in Naval Jelly. Another is 
> oxalic acid, used in cleaners like Zud and Barkeeper's Friend. Either can 
> remove nickel or chrome plating if left for too long. The MSDS for some 
> rust removers, such as Evapo-Rust, don't list any of the ingredients. 
> Evapo-Rust claims none of its ingredients are hazardous.


Back in the 70-80's Hemming Motor News had an advertiser for a PF-47 
deruster that came in crystaline form in a 1 or 5 gallon can. Just add some 
in hot water to dissolve and wait 6-24 hours depending on how much was used. 
I havent been able to find any info on it and still have some left if a 
chemist here wants to test it. I hate paying to ship mostly water by the 
gallon. When it turns black I dilute and spray on ground moss to kill it.

A soapy/oily feel often signifies an alkaline such as Sodium Hydroxide, aka 
lye, which is very hazardous. Ive used that in the back yard to clean engine 
blocks, heads, rear ends, springs, solid front axles, and other large items 
for decades; bought 100# bags. It works fine in a 275 gal oil tank cut in 
half  with some charcoal heat to keep a bit warm.

Farmers have used sulfated molasses for centuries to derust. A 1:4 or 5 
ratio of molasses to water works well but takes 5-10 days to work on an 
engine block that has almost plugged water passages, depending upon water 
temperature. After washing down with a hose the block looks new. It doesnt 
remove grease or paint as does NaO2 but many plants love it and its non 
hazardous to waste water fields or public sewers.I also use it for many 
other small to medium sized items where Im not in a rush. Antique tools, 
hardware, old chassis, large and small transformer bells, etc.
Do not use on aluminum, copper, etc. Ive cleaned automotive pot metal by 
watching carefully as it doesnt take long.

Ive also cleaned antique carbs with room temperature NaO2 with a couple of 3 
second dips and then ito a plastic 5 gal bucket of  cold water. There is 
nothing like a set of like new Stromberg 97's or Holley 94's sitting on a 
polished intake on a vintage flathead, Y Block, Chebby, Rocket 88, etc.

Carl