[ARC5] [Vintage-Military-RADAR] Re: [MRCA] AN/PRC-74 Schematics

[Richard Hankins]

John,

I agree with you that Google's treatment of these documents creates a 
problem.   It will pan out just as you describe - with vital information 
being lost (unless action is taken).

The question for us all is - what to do about it?

Clearly Google's copies cannot be relied on.   And Google appears to be 
impervious to any sort of appeals to deal with the problem.   As soon as 
they take a partial copy, the document is then "in danger".   At least 
it is, if they literally have the _only_ (partial) copy.

I suggest the following actions by the "vintage electronics community" 
are needed to ensure that we lose as little as possible:

/
1.  Make sure our copies are complete./

I know the large pages are a pain for those scanning with A4/US Letter 
size scanners - however do your best to capture it all, since expert 
treatment can digitally piece together the separate bits of the diagram.

/
2.   Provide free access to all responsible researchers/users/restorers 
so that they hold their own copies//, and we have as much material 
distributed around the world as possible./

One threat to the material is all the usual hazards - hardware failure 
(HDD going down, etc), fire, earthquake, theft, and lack of care in 
general.   The only safeguard against these threats is to get as many 
copies as possible in as many hands as possible around the world.

Some groups (e.g. the "WS19 group")  believe in putting draconian 
restrictions on access to documents.   But in the long term, their 
actions are similar to Google's.    Contributors think the stuff is safe 
with groups like the WS19 one - but is it?   We really have no idea.   
All we know is that getting accessible copies out of them is nigh on 
impossible. (I don't count files encrypted with near unbreakable 
passwords as "accessible").  If the password is ever lost to a file - 
then that file becomes useless.

An example of how allowing (or at least not preventing) copies to be 
taken are old audio recordings that are now being recovered by the 
BBC.   The BBC itself had long scrubbed old recordings of many programs 
now regarded as all-time "classics".    Copies are turning up in 
people's lofts and being made available to everyone.   No - its not an 
ideal way to ensure things survive - but life is unpredictable, and this 
works to a degree.

The BAMA site is a good example of how to do this.  I got the vmars 
archive working along the same lines about 10 years ago, where stuff is 
freely given away.


/3.  Try and get everyone to realise that sharing stuff is ultimately 
better for everyone - including the sharer.

/In the UK, it has become socially unacceptable to drink and drive.   
People who think it OK to horde rare items that should be part of our 
common heritage, and refuse to allow access by anyone else, need to be 
regarded in the same way.  The problem isn't restricted to sharing old 
electronic manuals - you will find the archeological world has it in 
bucket loads.


/4. //We, collectively, need to keep an eye on what Google is scanning 
in our own field.   If they ever scan something not widely available 
elsewhere, we need to take steps to get a full copy asap./

The PRC-74 manual that started this thread is not under much threat as 
far as I know.   But there is some WWII era (and earlier) material that is.

I am not sure how this would be done practically.  Chances are that 
Google doesn't publish a list of all the stuff it has scanned.   Someone 
on here may know more.


Richard
G7RVI

On 01/12/2012 19:40, J. Forster wrote:
>
> Nick,
>
> I'm not saying Google is not doing a service by scanning a lot of stuff. I
> like their patents a lot.
>
> BUT, my concern is long term. I grew up in the era before Xerox and
> scanners technical information was hard to get. If you were really lucky,
> you got a poor copy of a schemat for a unit. Mostly you got nothing.
>
> Yes, there were a very few books, but they had little but schemats and
> "conversion" information.
>
> I don't care immediately that Google's scans don't have oversized prints,
> but, in the future when the HC gets even rarer than it is now, the loss
> will be irretrievable.
>
> Already, there are sets whose doc is essentially mythical. I have two such
> at least.
>
> It's almost the same argument as preserving the diversity of critters and
> plants worldwide.
>
> The custodians of documents will just remember that 'Google scanned our
> library', so we can toss out all the dusty manuals to make room for the
> latest romance novel or Time magazine. They will not remember that the
> prints were not scanned.
>
> That's the crux of the argument. Google, by scanning it incompletely, is
> hastening the very loss of information they are seeking to preserve.
>
> YMMV,
>
> -John
>
> =============
>
> > Well, you guys should definitely ask for your money back! Oh wait.......
> >
> > Me, I'm grateful to Google for the several million pages they've 
> given us
> > for free that are quite useful and readable. Ok they aren't perfect and
> > are missing some of my favorite govt pubs but it sure is worth at least
> > what they charge.
> > Cheers
> > Nick
> >
> >
> > On Dec 1, 2012, at 2:04 PM, "Kenneth G. Gordon" 
> <kgordon2006 at frontier.com <mailto:kgordon2006%40frontier.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 29 Nov 2012 at 18:53, J. Forster wrote:
> >>
> >>> IMO, this Google program is run by complete cretins. And, it seems
> >>> there is no way to contact Google.
> >>
> >> You are absolutely correct. I cannot believe the lousy quality of the
> >> scans of
> >> books we have found on Google: missing pages, duplicated pages,
> >> off-square pages, folded edges, etc., ad nauseaum.
> >
> >
>
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