[ARC5] [armyradios] Re: [Vintage-Military-RADAR] Re: [MRCA] AN/PRC-74 Schematics
Guy Harrell
guyharrell at bellsouth.net
Mon Dec 3 07:44:40 EST 2012
John,
I agree with all your suggestions.
I'm going to write a letter to the CEO of Google. The more specific the
letter is the more likely it will have some impact. I will post a copy of
the letter here in the belief that many here will print out the letter, sign
their name, and also send it to the Google CEO. That address will be part of
the letter.
What I need to know is the complete official name and/or number of some
SPECIFC documents that we KNOW are in Googles collection AND have missing,
incomplete or illegible diagrams or other missing or faulty parts. Help me
out here folks! I'm relying on you to send this information because I don't
know of any. More is better than less.
Even if Google does nothing, a list of the faulty documents will be useful
to this group. Knowing at least some of the faulty documents will allow this
group to make some complete copies.
Oh, since I am a member of only the armyradios yahoo group and this email
will be going to other groups, you might want to email the document
names/number directly to me (g u y h a r r e l l at b e l l s o u t h dot n
e t) in addition to responding to your group.
Guy
KD5QQG
-----Original Message-----
From: armyradios at yahoogroups.com [mailto:armyradios at yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Richard Hankins
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 5:59 AM
To: Vintage-Military-RADAR at yahoogroups.com
Cc: ArmyRadios at yahoogroups.com; ARC5 at mailman.QTH.net; VMARS Mail List
Subject: [armyradios] Re: [Vintage-Military-RADAR] Re: [ARC5] [MRCA]
AN/PRC-74 Schematics
John,
I agree with you that Google's treatment of these documents creates a
problem. It will pan out just as you describe - with vital information
being lost (unless action is taken).
The question for us all is - what to do about it?
Clearly Google's copies cannot be relied on. And Google appears to be
impervious to any sort of appeals to deal with the problem. As soon as
they take a partial copy, the document is then "in danger". At least it
is, if they literally have the only (partial) copy.
I suggest the following actions by the "vintage electronics community" are
needed to ensure that we lose as little as possible:
1. Make sure our copies are complete.
I know the large pages are a pain for those scanning with A4/US Letter
size scanners - however do your best to capture it all, since expert
treatment can digitally piece together the separate bits of the diagram.
2. Provide free access to all responsible researchers/users/restorers so
that they hold their own copies, and we have as much material distributed
around the world as possible.
One threat to the material is all the usual hazards - hardware failure
(HDD going down, etc), fire, earthquake, theft, and lack of care in general.
The only safeguard against these threats is to get as many copies as
possible in as many hands as possible around the world.
Some groups (e.g. the "WS19 group") believe in putting draconian
restrictions on access to documents. But in the long term, their actions
are similar to Google's. Contributors think the stuff is safe with groups
like the WS19 one - but is it? We really have no idea. All we know is
that getting accessible copies out of them is nigh on impossible. (I don't
count files encrypted with near unbreakable passwords as "accessible"). If
the password is ever lost to a file - then that file becomes useless.
An example of how allowing (or at least not preventing) copies to be taken
are old audio recordings that are now being recovered by the BBC. The BBC
itself had long scrubbed old recordings of many programs now regarded as
all-time "classics". Copies are turning up in people's lofts and being
made available to everyone. No - its not an ideal way to ensure things
survive - but life is unpredictable, and this works to a degree.
The BAMA site is a good example of how to do this. I got the vmars
archive working along the same lines about 10 years ago, where stuff is
freely given away.
3. Try and get everyone to realise that sharing stuff is ultimately
better for everyone - including the sharer.
In the UK, it has become socially unacceptable to drink and drive.
People who think it OK to horde rare items that should be part of our common
heritage, and refuse to allow access by anyone else, need to be regarded in
the same way. The problem isn't restricted to sharing old electronic
manuals - you will find the archeological world has it in bucket loads.
4. We, collectively, need to keep an eye on what Google is scanning in
our own field. If they ever scan something not widely available elsewhere,
we need to take steps to get a full copy asap.
The PRC-74 manual that started this thread is not under much threat as far
as I know. But there is some WWII era (and earlier) material that is.
I am not sure how this would be done practically. Chances are that Google
doesn't publish a list of all the stuff it has scanned. Someone on here
may know more.
Richard
G7RVI
On 01/12/2012 19:40, J. Forster wrote:
Nick,
I'm not saying Google is not doing a service by scanning a lot of stuff.
I
like their patents a lot.
BUT, my concern is long term. I grew up in the era before Xerox and
scanners technical information was hard to get. If you were really
lucky,
you got a poor copy of a schemat for a unit. Mostly you got nothing.
Yes, there were a very few books, but they had little but schemats and
"conversion" information.
I don't care immediately that Google's scans don't have oversized
prints,
but, in the future when the HC gets even rarer than it is now, the loss
will be irretrievable.
Already, there are sets whose doc is essentially mythical. I have two
such
at least.
It's almost the same argument as preserving the diversity of critters
and
plants worldwide.
The custodians of documents will just remember that 'Google scanned our
library', so we can toss out all the dusty manuals to make room for the
latest romance novel or Time magazine. They will not remember that the
prints were not scanned.
That's the crux of the argument. Google, by scanning it incompletely, is
hastening the very loss of information they are seeking to preserve.
YMMV,
-John
=============
> Well, you guys should definitely ask for your money back! Oh
wait.......
>
> Me, I'm grateful to Google for the several million pages they've given
us
> for free that are quite useful and readable. Ok they aren't perfect
and
> are missing some of my favorite govt pubs but it sure is worth at
least
> what they charge.
> Cheers
> Nick
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2012, at 2:04 PM, "Kenneth G. Gordon"
<kgordon2006 at frontier.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 29 Nov 2012 at 18:53, J. Forster wrote:
>>
>>> IMO, this Google program is run by complete cretins. And, it seems
>>> there is no way to contact Google.
>>
>> You are absolutely correct. I cannot believe the lousy quality of the
>> scans of
>> books we have found on Google: missing pages, duplicated pages,
>> off-square pages, folded edges, etc., ad nauseaum.
>
>
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