[W8MWA] Road map to the future?

Dean Thompson deanot26508 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 25 11:06:22 EDT 2015 

The remote base is what i had in mind, Ido have a 100% signal at my qth.

Just for information.

On Friday, September 25, 2015, Josh Smith <juicewvu at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Josh,
>
> See my replies inline as before.
>
> Josh Smith
> KD8HRX
> email/jabber:  juicewvu at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','juicewvu at gmail.com');>
> phone:  304.237.9369(c)
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 2:05 AM, Josh Prichard <wvunderground at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wvunderground at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> So what about linking the echolink in via remote base?  At least this way
>> if it was totally screwed up someone could key up the repeater and kill the
>> remote radio link until it was stable again.  I don't know if Dean is close
>> enough to have a good remote base signal but something to think about.
>> Otherwise.... echolink has a remote webpage that we can setup so any of the
>> club members can log in and kill the link as well.  It would be very easy
>> to setup and distribute the login info to everyone.  We could probably even
>> setup a mini server with power control to kill the echolink radio power in
>> case of extreme emergency.  Multiple ways to control this link.
>>
>
>
> A remote base sounds like a fantastic idea for linking our repeater to
> echo link to me.  I'm not sure if Deans QTH is a good one for this or not,
> but I'll bet we can find a member or two that are in a good location if
> Dean is not.
>
> Randy - Can you weigh in on your thoughts of linking the repeater to
> echolink via a remote base as the repeater trustee?
>
> Bill - Can you weigh in from a technical standpoint.
>
>
>>
>> I'm going to revisit the VHF fusion repeater thing as I have been reading
>> more info on it.  As of what I know now.... there are a few ways we could
>> go about this.  Since the vhf repeater is old it most likely needs
>> replaced.  The club could get a fusion repeater and let it replace the vhf
>> repeater.  We can run the fusion repeater in a few different modes.
>> Analog only in / Analog only out
>> Analog and Digital in / Analog out*
>> Analog and Digital in / Analog and Digital out**
>>
>> *In the analog and digital in / analog out mode a user can either talk
>> digital or analog into the repeater and come out analog only on the output
>> so everyone would always hear everything.  This would allow digital users
>> better input into the repeater and should keep analog users the same as it
>> is now.
>>
>> **Analog and Digital in / Analog and Digital out - in this mode if a
>> group of people are talking in digital would be digital in / digital out.
>> Analog users wouldn't hear anything as long as they have a ctcss tone set
>> on receive.  Now if an analog user wants to talk.... when they key up the
>> repeater.... the repeater will go into the digital and analog in / analog
>> out mode and stay that way until a timeout has happened where the analog
>> user has stopped talking.  Then it'll be back in analog and digital in /
>> analog and digital out.
>>
>> My new suggestion would be to replace the current vhf machine with a
>> fusion repeater and allow the analog and digital in / analog out mode.
>> This would at least get a new repeater in place of the old equipment and
>> still allow all users to participate.  From what I gather yaesu still has
>> the 500$ deal going for clubs.  This would beat putting money into an old
>> repeater.
>>
>
>
> To provide a little more detail on our repeater.  The controller is pretty
> new (less than 3 years) but the radios are pretty old but have proven to be
> very reliable.  I'm not sure that a replacement of the entire system is
> warranted.
>
>
>
>>
>> Then perhaps start to build out a UHF network on DMR.  I'm aiming at UHF
>> for the fact that the new dongles coming out for DMR hotspots are UHF
>> based.  DMR radios aren't dual band yet.
>>
>> Now to follow up on some of your other questions I never answered.  I'm
>> from Logan right now which is right over the hill from Beckley.
>>
>
> I know where Logan is, I've been there more than once, though I have not
> been there for several years.
>
>
>> I have been talking on the Ivy Knob dmr repeater after work.  I run up
>> the top of a hill and talk away.  Right now the cheapest HT for dmr would
>> be the TYT md-380 I believe.  It is what I'm using at the moment.
>>
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walkie-Talkie-TYT-MD-380-UHF-5W-Digital-Mobile-DMR-2-Way-Radio-1xUSB-Cable-US-/301693099071?hash=item463e4f5c3f
>>
>> Just make sure to get one with a programming cable.  They have a codeplug
>> avail on the NCPRN site that includes the Beckley repeaters.
>>
>> http://www.ncprn.net/downloads.html
>>
>
> Thanks for the links.
>
>>
>>
>> As for linking digital repeaters.... its all internet based now days
>> which is why it would be a plus to have internet at the repeater sites.
>> The wireless link that BIll is working on now is ideal.  I run a wireless
>> link at 5ghz at my current workplace and haven't had one hickup other than
>> a switch that couldn't handle the mac tables from so many devices going
>> through it.  Running the Ubiquiti Nanostation NSM5 at both locations and it
>> maxes a 75meg connection out.  Voice data is nowhere near this throughput.
>>
>
>
> I've used ubiquiti equipment and am a big fan as well.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Joshua Smith <juicewvu at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','juicewvu at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dean,
>>> Thanks for your input. Please see my comments again they are inline
>>> below.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> --
>>> Josh Smith
>>> KD8HRX
>>>
>>> Email/jabber: juicewvu at gmail.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','juicewvu at gmail.com');>
>>> Phone: 304.237.9369(c)
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone.
>>>
>>> On Sep 22, 2015, at 10:35 PM, Dean Thompson <deanot26508 at gmail.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','deanot26508 at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am not seeing any replies from other club members on this,
>>>
>>> I for one am interested in getting my echolink box set up on a local
>>> repeater, if not this one I will try the WVU repeater.  Echolink does have
>>> some advantages, example being... One of our hams moved away just over a
>>> year ago, would it not be nice for him to stop in and say hi on the Monday
>>> net?.  As Josh mentioned, it is also nice for when we are out of town.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree echo link has some nice use sees and I would like to see it
>>> available on the MWA repeater. Although I think the ability to
>>> break/reestablish this link from the repeater side and I am not sure what
>>> is involved in making that a possibility.
>>>
>>>
>>> We need more feedback on this, more replies as this affects us all in
>>> some way or another.
>>>
>>>
>>> We definitely need feedback from everyone in the club. Most importantly
>>> from Bill(WR8S) as the technical person who takes care of the repeater and
>>> from Randy (N8OZY) as the repeater trustee.
>>>
>>> hopefully they are able to weigh in on this via email but if not we have
>>> a good topic to address in the October meeting.
>>>
>>> Josh has made some good points, and I look forward to moving forward on
>>> some of these ideas.  First we need to either replace the aged repeater or
>>> repair it, having a digital mode would be nice also.
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree our number one priority needs to be in repairing the repeater
>>> (even if that means replacing some of the equipment). I also would like to
>>> see us have a digital repeater of some sort in addition to our existing
>>> analog repeater NOT in place of as I think asking everyone to replace their
>>> existing equipment just to access the repeater would be a disaster for the
>>> club.
>>>
>>>
>>> What is the situation for a new repeater? can we afford one? do we need
>>> to chip in, raise some funding somehow?
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we need to first get the existing repeater back to its optimal
>>> condition and see what that does to our funds. Then we can start to plan
>>> for expanding our repeater system - hopefully into the digital space.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=249&encProdID=4105F1B8AE65079CAD2D26735B83B302
>>> this is the system fusion repeater if anyone is interested, and I just
>>> noticed it uses C4FM which is what my Yeasu 991 can run, so that is a plus
>>> for me.. lol
>>>
>>>
>>> That seems like a good deal on the repeater. Unfortunately I believe
>>> most of the expenses with building out a new repeater will be in the
>>> ancillary things that go along with it - antennas, feed line, duplexes,
>>> filters, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know if this is bogus or not, but the above repeater is $500 on
>>> a club special, see here
>>> http://www.radioinc.com/oscmax/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3791
>>>
>>> I hope to see you all at the next meeting, Josh and Josh, keep up the
>>> chat, I feel some headway is being made.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks again for the input.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dean (KD8YNY)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Josh Smith <juicewvu at gmail.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','juicewvu at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Josh,
>>>>
>>>> Please see my comments inline again.
>>>>
>>>> Josh Smith
>>>> KD8HRX
>>>> email/jabber:  juicewvu at gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','juicewvu at gmail.com');>
>>>> phone:  304.237.9369(c)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Josh Prichard <wvunderground at gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wvunderground at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Josh....
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm hoping I didn't come off as harsh as that was not my intention.
>>>>> Sometimes I do have problems getting my thoughts out correctly.  If so I do
>>>>> apologize.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You didn't come across as harsh.  No need to apologize.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the club I'll join.  It seems like a club with good users.
>>>>> Sure there is a difference of opinion but that is any club.  Everyone was
>>>>> nice and friendly.  I think the club has a good future.  Just gotta get
>>>>> everyone back to being excited about it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for joining our club.  I think you'll find its a good club
>>>> and worth the investment of your time and effort.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Being everything to everyone is kinda hard to do in a club setting.
>>>>> Everyone has different ideas on what the club should be.
>>>>>
>>>>> The future for the repeaters and etc... it would be nice to hear some
>>>>> activity on the repeater.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree it would be nice to hear some activity outside of the Monday
>>>> evening net, I have no room to talk here though because I am as guilty as
>>>> anyone of not using the repeater.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>   I know with cell phones, ham radio is starting to taper off on
>>>>> usage.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree with this with respect to the local repeater as a means to
>>>> foster communication amongst hams in the local area.  I also think that the
>>>> ubiquity of emaill/instant messaging/text messaging has as much or more to
>>>> do with this than the cell phone does.  Just think 10 or 15 years ago we
>>>> would probably be having this discussion on the repeater instead of over
>>>> email.  I don't necessarily think this is all a bad thing though.  At least
>>>> email is easier to store and keep a record of for later reference.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> This is the reason why I was talking about echolink.  Since I'm not
>>>>> usually in town but will be moving in soon.... I had a want to talk on the
>>>>> local repeater up there.  Would have been nice to be able to remote into
>>>>> the repeater and strike up a convo about local stuff and start to make
>>>>> friends.  If someone is traveling that would also be a nice addition as
>>>>> well.  Echolink is now on smart phones so one can download it and boom
>>>>> instant radio that works away from home.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Echolink is definitely interesting and a useful mode.  I've
>>>> experimented with it in the past and useful to access a local repeater when
>>>> away from the area.  Unfortunately as you've noticed there isn't much
>>>> activity on our repeater currently so I'm not sure how much luck you would
>>>> have had striking up a conversation even if it were accessible via echolink.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As of right now the digital repeaters in WV are as follows.....
>>>>>
>>>>> *DMR which is separated into two different link networks.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *DMR-MARC network - uses motorola dmr repeaters - has been active in
>>>>> the states for some time*
>>>>> Bluefield, WV 1 repeater
>>>>> Beckley, WV 3 spread out to cover a lot of area.
>>>>> See here for current map:  http://www.dmr-marc.net/repeaters.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the information and the link to the map.  I am glad to know
>>>> there is a presence in the Beckley area as it is where I am originally from
>>>> and still travel there often to visit family.  I may try to pick up a cheap
>>>> DMR HT before I head down there the next time and try to access them.  Do
>>>> you have any recommendations for such an HT?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *DMRPlus - uses hytera dmr repeaters*
>>>>> None yet in WV but its just now getting started in the states.
>>>>>
>>>>> *FUSION*
>>>>> Clarksburg 1 repeater
>>>>> Pt. Pleasant 1 repeater
>>>>>
>>>>> *DSTAR*
>>>>> Mount Hope 1 repeater
>>>>>
>>>>> Digital offers some nice features.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's definitely more bandwidth efficient and I also like the slow speed
>>>> data and text messaging capabilities present in most digital solutions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In doing some more research on fusion... i agree with you that it
>>>>> would be nice to leave the current analog system online and put a digital
>>>>> system in place as another repeater.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think this is a requirement not just a nice to have.  Like it or not
>>>> Analog has too large of a footprint to just do away with anytime in the
>>>> near future and its proven technology.  I know our repeater has been used
>>>> more than once to coordinate communications to areas otherwise cut off due
>>>> to winter storms even as recently as 4 or 5 years ago.  I was
>>>> (un)fortunately out of town when that storm hit and was not able to
>>>> participate so someone else on the list can provide more details of this
>>>> event.  I think until such time as everyone has digital radios and the
>>>> system has proven itself to be as reliable there will be a lot of
>>>> reluctance to get rid of the current analog system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> To have the fusion in place of the analog system you would have to run
>>>>> the output of the fusion in analog mode and the input in dual
>>>>> digital/analog mode.  That would almost defeat the purpose of digital as it
>>>>> adds an analog route in.  Sooooo my new suggestion based on the info I have
>>>>> acquired.  Install a new fusion repeater and then perhaps link it into the
>>>>> analog system later on.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I like this idea.  Unfortunately I do not know if space is available at
>>>> the current repeater site or if we'd have to look for an alternate site to
>>>> host a new repeater.  It's something we should discuss as we go forward
>>>> with deciding what the future of our repeater looks like.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Or perhaps start with a UHF DMR repeater then move to fusion a little
>>>>> later on.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We currently have an analog repeater that is in some form of
>>>> disrepair.  I really like the idea of making our UHF frequencies our
>>>> "experimental" repeater and I think we should investigate using any/all of
>>>> the digital repeater modes on this frequency.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> DMR we could also link into the analog vhf repeater.  Would be nice to
>>>>> get a dmr repeater on the air at the university club as well..
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As you might have noticed from some of the discussions the university
>>>> club is pretty much defunct right now but Dr. Vanscoy is trying very hard
>>>> to revive it.  Hopefully she is successful and if she is we could embark on
>>>> a project like this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Could use the same talkgroups on both repeaters and have a wide link
>>>>> network started.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just curious - I know that with some of the digital modes (DSTAR in
>>>> particular) linking over the air is not possible and all links must be over
>>>> the internet.  Is the same true for DMR or is it possible to link multiple
>>>> DMR repeaters using only RF?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So yes.... I will try to put together an info packet/presentation on
>>>>> the digital systems for the next meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much for trying to put this together.  The next meeting
>>>> will be on October 20.  Would it be possible to let me know by the 13th if
>>>> you will be able to put together the presentation or not so we have a bit
>>>> of time to put together an alternate?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm hoping my DMR dongle has came in by then.  If so I'll setup a DMR
>>>>> hotspot and let the group take a test drive.  I have been doing a few
>>>>> months worth of research into different digital modes so I do have some
>>>>> info handy.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Great.  I am very interested in theys technology and would love to see
>>>> it in action.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As a side note.... how this reflector is setup.... its a tad hard to
>>>>> carry on a good conversation.  If you don't reply to the reflector you just
>>>>> reply to the user and no one else really sees the reply.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The reflector is set up pretty much identically to any email list I
>>>> have ever used and having been in the IT industry for a while I have
>>>> subscribed and continue to subscribe to lots of mailing lists.  Looking
>>>> back at my reply it went to both you (in the to: field) and the list (in
>>>> the cc: field) and looking at my email archive I did receive my reply via
>>>> the list so all subscribers should have seen it.  Please let me know if you
>>>> have any specific questions regarding the list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm in the process of setting up a DMR website that will hopefully
>>>>> group some info together for those interested in DMR and possibly other
>>>>> digital modes.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Great, I've spent some time reading a bit about DMR the past few
>>>> evenings and while there is a lot of information out there it seems to be
>>>> scattered all over the interwebs.  A central place that collects a lot of
>>>> this information would be very valuable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm adding a forum in as well.  I have a club forum setup on there as
>>>>> well that is only avail to members of the club if anyone would be
>>>>> interested.  Otherwise perhaps we can setup a forum on the w8mwa page.
>>>>>
>>>>   It would allow everyone to discuss club business in a better format
>>>>> and have separate areas for members and non members of the club.  Plus an
>>>>> area to talk about anything and everything under the sun.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's just my personal preference but I much prefer mailing lists for
>>>> this type of discussion but by no means does my preference cary any weight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Here is mine.... http://forum.dmrwv.com
>>>>> It's a work in progress as I just started it.
>>>>> Also if help is needed with the website I would be more than happy to
>>>>> help.  I have quite a bit of experience with websites etc.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much for the offer.  Randy Crowe (N80ZY) and Bill Shultz
>>>> (W8RS) are the primary care takers of the website.  They are both
>>>> subscribed to the list and I'm sure will be reading this.  But do mention
>>>> it to them during the next club meeting.
>>>>
>>>>  <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Josh
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>
>

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